Suggestions For - "What I Wish I Had Known At 21 That I Now Know From Studying Epicurus"

    At yesterday's 20th zoom Patrikios had a very specific suggestion -- that it would be great to have a book of the title in this thread-starter. Such a book might be of interest to a wide group of young people, and would be a good way to summarize for ourselves some of the most important things we have learned.

    In the (current) absence of such a book, it would be helpful to us and motivational to book/article/video producers if we asked for contributions in this thread suggesting points that such a work might contain.

    As an easy but obvious example suggestion, one might be that "I wish I had known at 21 that it was both important and easy to read what Epicurus and other famous Greek philosophers wrote themselves, rather than relying on my teachers or others to explain it to me." And of course it would be good to elaborate on the explanation of the point.

    I'd bet that there's a good chance that more than one of us could take the suggestions in such a list and make some first efforts toward producing the resource that Patrikios was suggesting is needed.

    I am 23, so I am not far from 21, but this doesn't mean that there is nothing I know now that my younger self would have profitted from knowing.

    I think two of the most valuable things Epicureanism provided me were the value of gratitude and a strong framework to base my general beliefs.

    The gratitude one is pretty obvious. Once upon a time, I was obsessed with all the things that I "needed" in order to be happy. I "needed" lots of money, status, multiple romantic partners, travel the world, seek fancy experiences, etc. I could never enjoy what I had until I got everything that I "needed."

    Now, I have a good, calm job, good(and simple) food, leisure time, and no worries. Not that there is anything wrong with fancy things once in a while, but I hadn't realized that all the pleasure that I needed was already available to me. Now, no matter the meal, I feast like the gods, not because I have infinite means, but because the means I have are more than enough.

    Now, the strong framework for deciding our beliefs is especially important in our modern day. There are endless narratives and rules that are preached out there. Everyone has an opinion on how others should live and the decisions they should take. If you don't have a North to follow, you may end up being carried away by any narrative that sounds reasonable.

    Epicureanism provided me with a series of ideas that serve as my North, which helps me keep my head above all the confusion.

    I would also agree with this idea. To me, similar to SillyApe, Epicurus gives me a set of ideas to keep in mind.

    Likewise, I think Gratitude is the biggest improvement, I began to realize that Gratitude should be viewed like a muscle, you gotta exercise it by remembering "nature's wealth" and remembering past pleasures. I also think on death more mostly just to realize and appreciate the opportunities in life more, I just watched a DC show called "Lanterns" yesterday for example with my Dad and Step-Mom. Was really good.

    Three other things.

    1. I have a much less snobbish attitude towards others than I used to, I used to be critical towards others for their perceived lack of knowledge on history, but here they were enjoying their life, while I was getting worked up over historical disputes.

    As Metrodorus says

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    Wherefore let it never disturb you, if you know not either what side Hector was of, or the first verses in Homer's Poem, or again what is in its middle.

    2. I also am more inclined to think positively in terms of Self-Sufficiency by thinking on the issues of "Am I really living according to nature, or am I allowing myself anxiety over vain ideals and desire for endless soda or a desire to sleep in". Drinking more water now. Just gotta get used to exercising.

    3. I feel much less perturbed to pain than I used to, just got some staples in the back of my head, had trouble sleeping because you know...staples. But otherwise fine. The scarier part was just the medical bills lol.

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    I presume the staples means you cut yourself (?)

    If you mean intentionally than no. From what I can tell I got a small cut at work by hitting my head, than made it way worse by digging at it like an idiot. It's a little speculative though.

    Quote from Cassius

    Patrikios had a very specific suggestion -- that it would be great to have a book of the title in this thread-starter. Such a book might be of interest to a wide group of young people, and would be a good way to summarize for ourselves some of the most important things we have learned.

    In the (current) absence of such a book, it would be helpful to us and motivational to book/article/video producers if we asked for contributions in this thread suggesting points that such a work might contain.

    Here are some suggestions off the top of my head, based on Epicurean principals:

    -- Understanding the limits of pleasure and pain

    -- Choices and avoidances - common everyday choices and also long-term lifestyle choices such as where to live, career, marriage, children

    -- "Natural-necessary"--"Natural-optional"--"Empty opinions"

    -- Importance of putting effort into "goods" which lead to the best life (friendship, sufficiency, etc.)

    -- How to navigate through and avoid troubles caused by the "modern religious landscape" and also "unnatural" worldviews such as pessimism, extreme skepticism, harsh stoicism, perfectionism, hyper-consumerism, etc.

    -- Moral choices based on that which is instrumental for creating the best life (non-harming).

    For me ? Everything, it is to much to tell here 😅

    I had religious education and was in an esoteric idealist bubble and the Internet was young and full pseudoscience and almost no one debunked it or it was hard to find.

    I was in wicca, christianity, buddhism, shamanism.

    On one point a shaman teacher lead an exercise to „trance travel“(shamanic travel) to a stone, a plant and in the end to the ghost or soul of „The internet“…. Yes we are in the worldview of animism, everything has a soul…

    Sometimes I feared in the night shadows over my bed and I thought I have summoned a demon accidentally….

    I understand the freedom of fears of gods/ghosts or magical energies which a materialist/naturalist/Epicurean worldview provides.

    I found a way out through questening all ideas with empirical findings and reason, trusting Scientific methods, so with naturalism and in core Epicureanism.

    Quote from Matteng

    I had religious education and was in an esoteric idealist bubble and the Internet was young and full pseudoscience and almost no one debunked it or it was hard to find.

    Evidently right now and in recent years there is a surge of interest in tarot cards, and people use it to aid them in making decisions according to an NPR article. But I don't think that would be a good idea at all.

    From a modern psychology perspective, here is a webpage with some very good reading regarding decision making:

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    Chocolate or strawberry? Life or death? We make some choices quickly and automatically, relying on mental shortcuts our brains have developed over the years to guide us in the best course of action, even as we deliberate over others almost endlessly. Understanding strategies—such as maximizing versus satisficing, fast versus slow thinking, and factors such as risk tolerance and choice overload—can lead to better outcomes.

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    What is informed decision-making?

    The ability to think critically is key to making good decisions without succumbing to common errors or bias. This means not just going with your gut, but rather figuring out what knowledge you lack and obtaining it. When you look at all possible sources of information with an open mind, you can make an informed decision based on facts rather than intuition.

    Full webpage with various articles:

    Decision-Making
    Chocolate or strawberry? Life or death? We make some choices quickly and automatically, relying on mental shortcuts our brains have developed over the years to…
    www.psychologytoday.com