Recent Activities
-
Don
February 6, 2025 at 9:30 PM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.PostWelcome aboard, sowhataustin -
Kalosyni
February 6, 2025 at 6:43 PM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.Postsowhataustin Welcome to the forum! -
Martin
February 6, 2025 at 5:17 PM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.PostWelcome Austin! -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 2:47 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Yep -- they are not completely wrong at all -- they are just only partly right.
And what I read you to be saying is that we have to realize that this issue is not just difference of opinion as to words. In fact, those who try to water down Epicurus to… -
Don
February 6, 2025 at 2:36 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
I like the North Star idea. That could still work. I'll admit I like the sailing metaphor in our little boat.
Storms can also obscure the North Star, but it remains and becomes visible again once the storm of pain passes. -
Joshua
February 6, 2025 at 1:54 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Whenever we discuss the Letter to Menoikeus, I feel it's important to contrast it with what Epicurus wrote in the above surviving fragment from a lost work Peri Telos, "On the End". For this and other reasons, I am unwilling to cede the word pleasure… -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 1:37 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".PostOne aspect of the metaphor is that a lighthouse is clearly man-made, and the guidance we're looking to is something completely natural, more like a "north star" maybe. But metaphors are always approximate. Pointing out deficiencies in them is half the… -
Don
February 6, 2025 at 1:24 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Pain is represented by the storms, hidden reefs, submerged rocks, pirates(!), and other hazards as we keep our eyes on the lighthouse.
Pleasure, that to which all else points, is represented by the lighthouse, the highest point around, symbolizing… -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 11:36 AM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.PostAustin on this site I've tried to provide links to the major texts here:
https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/texts/
However I still refer at times to my older set of links here, and I may not have transferred them all over to the new format:
… -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 9:44 AM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.PostGlad to have you Austin! -
sowhataustin
February 6, 2025 at 9:40 AM Replied to the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.PostHello, I’m Austin. I came here looking for translations of Epicurean texts. I’ve listened to some informative podcasts that piqued my interest, but it’s time I engaged with Epicureanism in earnest. I’m happy to stumble upon this forum and your… -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 9:16 AM Posted the thread Welcome SoWhatAustin!.ThreadWelcome sowhataustin !
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within 72… -
Cassius
February 6, 2025 at 8:36 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Good question but I bet Don can do it. -
Cassius
PostFebruary 6, 2025 at 8:27 AM Yes it is an interesting take, and well written, focused more on the military aspect of Rome than you usually see. He's more negative on the military aspect than I would be, but those issues are certainly debatable. Someone is going to feel a lot… -
Kalosyni
February 6, 2025 at 8:18 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
You could almost use this as an additional "criteria" when you ask yourself: What will happen to me if I get what I want and what will happen if I do not get what I want. (paraphrase of VS71 ) -
Kalosyni
February 6, 2025 at 8:13 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
How does pain, pleasure, homeostatis, satisfaction in the feeling of being alive (Chrysippus' hand), doing what needs to be done for good longterm outcomes, etc. fit into this metaphor? -
Don
PostFebruary 6, 2025 at 7:49 AM https://open.substack.com/pub/everydayep…/against-cicero
An interesting take on Cicero's criticism a regards virtue -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 6:10 PM Replied to the thread Episode 266 - The Epicurean Paradigm Shift.PostThis is excellent—very calm, cool, and clear.
I agree! The basic idea that 'there are other options!' is a great entry point for general audiences—and you provided a brilliant explanation of the active/static pleasure issue. Thanks! -
Cassius
February 5, 2025 at 5:26 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
I think this is what people are wrestling with mostly unsuccessfully. If you take the position that pleasure has to be stimulative (which means you accept Cicero's and Plato's and the other major philosophers' perspective) then you are going to think… -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 4:04 PM Replied to the thread Plato's Timaeus vs. On Nature, Book 14.PostPlato takes 120 of the 30-60-90 triangles to form the icosahedron (twenty of these groupings of six):
"[55b] And the third solid is composed of twice sixty of the elemental triangles conjoined, and of twelve solid angles, each contained by five plane… -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 3:44 PM Replied to the thread Plato's Timaeus vs. On Nature, Book 14.PostPlato takes four of these groupings of six to form the tetrahedron:
"And when four equilateral triangles are combined so that three plane angles [55a] meet in a point, they form one solid angle, which comes next in order to the most obtuse of the plane… -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 3:31 PM Replied to the thread Plato's Timaeus vs. On Nature, Book 14.PostI think that part of Plato's argument is that the simplest possible plane is a triangle: therefore, this shape is properly considered the most basic building block for extending into three-dimensional space. Before we go 3D, Plato starts with a 30-60-90… -
Don
February 5, 2025 at 3:00 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".PostConsider a light house.
The lighthouse is always there. We steer our little boat towards the lighthouse. We steer away from the rocks and shoals by the beacon of the lighthouse. We choose to keep going through storms and rocks to get to safety. We don't… -
Don
February 5, 2025 at 1:50 PM Replied to the thread Roman Dodecahedrons.PostAncient fidget spinners? -
Cassius
February 5, 2025 at 1:17 PM Replied to the thread Episode 266 - The Epicurean Paradigm Shift.PostEpisode 266 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. Today's episode is a greatly-extended version of the presentation originally given on 1/19/25 entitled "The Epicurean Paradigm Shift."
For a slideshow version of this talk, click the "Featured… -
Cassius
February 5, 2025 at 1:04 PM Replied to the thread Episode 266 - The Epicurean Paradigm Shift.PostOver the next several weeks or months I am going to turn this presentation into my "standard speech" and devote the time that I would otherwise spend on reinventing wheels to refining this presentation.
Later today I will release the podcast version, and… -
Cassius
February 5, 2025 at 12:56 PM Replied to the thread Roman Dodecahedrons.PostIn the same line as you're thinking, Bryan, if I were a Pythagorean or a Platonist I doubt I could think of a better paperweight for us when reading rolled-up scrolls than a couple of those brass duodecahedrons. -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 12:31 PM Replied to the thread Roman Dodecahedrons.PostIt seems the tradition of keeping dodecahedrons for intellectual stimulation rather than practical use continued on, as seen in this antique "zodiac paperweight." -
Don
February 5, 2025 at 11:09 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Or you are motivated by the need to move toward pleasure.
PS. I'm thinking some of this is a matter of perspective and not just linguistic trickery. -
Kalosyni
February 5, 2025 at 8:54 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Don it sounds like you are saying that the telos is the same as saying: " pleasure is the guide of life ". (?)
Which then is very similar to saying: When the sky is clear it is blue - basically, an observation.
[…]
Bryan it sounds like you are… -
Bryan
February 5, 2025 at 12:30 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Yes, I fully agree. Our pleasure should be our continuous guide. We have pleasure, but we need to act in a way that ensures we continue to have it.
I think of pleasure as something like a compass. The boat is afloat, and it is a pleasure to be sailing:… -
Don
February 4, 2025 at 11:30 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Okay, so what was I alluding to?
ΤΕΛΟΣ (telos) is often - predominantly - translated into the English as "goal," sometimes "end." This implies what comes at the finish of a race or end of a game or "winning if you reach the goal." That's an unfortunate… -
Godfrey
February 4, 2025 at 10:11 PM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Kalosyni , as I was reading your original post above, I thought that I was following your line of thought, but then my conclusion was the opposite of yours.... In this context I read it as an indictment of Cyrenaic pursuit of pleasure and a… -
Kalosyni
February 4, 2025 at 11:56 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
Just to flesh out a bit more about the "goal": "What does an Epicurean focus on doing?"
Because either you are 1) choosing for yourself and being intentional; or 2) you are just going along with what other people around you are doing (i.e. letting them… -
Bryan
February 4, 2025 at 11:51 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".PostCicero was certainly correct that the Timaeus is obscure—and I agree that the reader of Plato develops a sympathy for this obscurity, as Plato does seem to sincerely wish to be as clear as possible. In fact, the Timaeus is really the same geometric… -
Cassius
February 4, 2025 at 10:31 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post -
Don
February 4, 2025 at 9:30 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".PostI have thoughts on the word "goal" for τέλος ... But that'll have to wait until this evening. -
Kalosyni
February 4, 2025 at 8:41 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".Post[…]
I firmly believe that Epicurean philosophy should be easily explained without having to re-define a common word.
In English the word "pleasure" currently has a specific meaning. And to the average person who has not studied the philosophy, it ends up… -
Cassius
February 4, 2025 at 8:08 AM Replied to the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".PostIn the right context that's not a bad idea, but the end I don't see a way around explaining what Pleasure means in full, which is more than just sensual stimulation.
Referencing "pleasant experiences" may take some of the edge off for people who are… -
Kalosyni
February 4, 2025 at 7:34 AM Posted the thread "Pleasure" vs "Pleasant Experiences".ThreadThis excerpt from the Letter to Menoeceus got me thinking...
"For it is not continuous drinkings and revelings, nor the satisfaction of lusts, nor the enjoyment of fish and other luxuries of the wealthy table, which produce a pleasant life, but sober… -
kochiekoch
February 3, 2025 at 4:03 PM Replied to the thread Roman Dodecahedrons.PostJust a thought, if the dodecahedrons really did have some sort of practical use, wouldn't we have seen artworks of everyday life with them in use?
Beautiful collection of Platonic solids there. -
Bryan
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:59 PM […]
That is correct, this is a well preserved section. There are a few letters missing here and there, but what is in quotes is present in the ancient Greek. -
Don
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:35 PM Just finishing lunch at work. For later reference...
https://papyri.info/dclp/865216?ro…tem+asc&p=0&t=0 -
Cassius
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:22 PM Works great -- thanks ----
Also, we crossposted so please note my comment about Oinoanda.
Another general comment --
in discussing "virtue" as a collective noun vs "the virtues" as particular virtues, I am afraid we are back in the territory of the… -
Cassius
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:19 PM Don -- I guess we don't have the Greek to compare to this, but whatever the ambiguity of the word virtue is, it looks like the dispute crystallized, maybe after Epicurus himself was dead, into what Diogenes of Oinoanda is discussing at Fragment 32. I… -
Don
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:17 PM […]
Try it now. Thanks! -
Cassius
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 2:01 PM Thanks Don --- the second link worked fine but not the first -- looks like there's maybe an error in "entry=a)reth" in that link? -
Don
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 12:23 PM ΑΡΕΤΗ (my misspelling previously)
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…7:entry=a)reth/
Virtus
https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…59:entry=virtus -
Cassius
PostFebruary 3, 2025 at 8:54 AM Yes - just constantly referring to lists like this one does not answer the question or tell us what we need to know.
And remember, about half of what we need to address is what Epicurus said about it, but maybe more than half of what we need to do is cut… -
Martin
February 3, 2025 at 8:37 AM Has received the trophy Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host.TrophyForum members who have been part of the Lucretius Today Podcast, both past and present
-
Cassius
March 26, 2024 at 3:41 PM Today we added "Colorplay" dark styles and "Nexus" light styles to the forum software. If you'd like to change the "look" of the forum, scroll to the bottom of the page and select the "Change Style" option.
-
Cassius
April 17, 2024 at 2:04 PM Today our Telegram Channel was updated - you can reach it here: https://t.me/EpicureanFriendsOfficial
-
Cassius
June 8, 2024 at 8:18 PM Today we changed the default theme style to "Inspire Blue." If you have any issues with site colors or simply want to go from light to dark, check the "Change Style" button at the bottom of each page.