Perspectives On "Proving" That Pleasure is "The Good"

Quote from Nate

Bailey's Fragment 10 alludes to Epicurus having declared HΔONH ("pleasure") to be TAΓAΘON or “the good”.

The Tetrapharmakos also indicates that TAΓAΘON ("the good") is HΔONH ("pleasure").

Athanaeus seems to record Epicurus as identifying TAΓAΘON ("the good") with HΔONH ("pleasure") in Deipnosophists (U67). Diogenes Laërtius also documents this attestation in Lives of Eminent Philosophers.

Seneca records Epicurus as having written HIC SVMMVM BONVM VOLVPTAS EST, “here our highest good is pleasure” (Letters To Lucilius 21.10). Lucretius also employs the phrase BONVM SVMMVM in De Rerum Natura, Book VI.

In his Epistle to Menoikeus, Epicurus declares HΔONH ("pleasure") to be the ΠPOTON AΓAΘON the "first good". Interestingly, he later declares TO MEΓIΣTON AΓAΘON ΦPONHΣIΣ, that "the greatest” or “highest good” is “prudence” (or “practical wisdom”). Epicurus also describes ΦPONHΣIΣ ("prudence") as being the APXH, the "beginning" or "foundation". Incidentally, he also identifies HΔONH ("pleasure") as both the APXHN ("beginning") and TEΛOΣ ("end").

In KD7, Epicurus refers to AΣΦAΛEIAN (“security”) as a ΦΥΣEΩΣ AΓAΘΟΝ (“natural good”). Similarly, in KD6 (among a variety of translations), he describes any means by which to acquire ΘAPPEIN (“confidence” or “the assurance of safety”) from or between people as being a ΦΥΣΙΝ […] AΓAΘΟΝ (also translated as a “natural good”).

Philodemus contrasts the general ideas of TΩN AΓAΘΩN with TΩN KAKΩN or “the good” with “ill” (U38); of interest, later, Usener translates Philodemus’ phrase TON XPHΣTON (tón khrēstón) as “the good” (U180).

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I just read Philodemus' treatise "On Death" and found an instance of the phrase TO MEΓIΣTON AΓAΘON (19.1). Throughout the treatise, he alludes to the pursuit and enjoyment of TOY KPATIΣTON BIOY, or "the best life" (38.14).

Adjective

κρᾰ́τῐστος (kratistos) m (feminine κρᾰτῐ́στη, neuter κρᾰ́τῐστον); first/second declension

superlative degree of ᾰ̓γᾰθός (agathós): best

superlative degree of κρατύς (kratús) strongest, mightiest, most powerful

Usage notes

Used as the superlative of ᾰ̓γᾰθός (agathós), along with ἄρῐστος (áristos) and βέλτῐστος (béltistos).

all of these points have been mentioned but...

• Pleasure is something we don't need to reason to determine it's worth, the experience of pleasure shows that by it's very presence in us.

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8. No pleasure is in itself evil, but the things which produce certain pleasures entail annoyances many times greater than the pleasures themselves.

• All choices we make ultimately move toward our pleasure. Whether we choose rightly is another issue.
• To be asked "why would you want to experience pleasure" is almost redundant, it's like being asked why do you want to have fresh air or why do you want functioning mind.
• We don't need to be convinced of pleasure, rather we are usually taught that pleasure is bad and some other thing is good.

Overall, pleasure just has a terrible reputation, for some reason even non religious friends of mine do not desire to admit pleasure is the highest good. Sometimes they exchange the word with happiness, wellbeing, fulfillment etc.. Sometimes it's the all encompassing "good person" alternative.

All these quasi Christian and Stoic influencers in the world don't help either, Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate, Russell Brand etc...have such a large affect on the younger generations 18-45 and commonly preach pleasure is bad. Anyway small tangent.

Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

Anyway small tangent.

Not so small -- that perspective dominates the world and it's easy to give in to it and retreat into nihilism in the face of it. In fact I'd say it would be impossible not to do so if you couldn't identify at least some number of allies in your life against it.

Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

Overall, pleasure just has a terrible reputation, for some reason even non religious friends of mine do not desire to admit pleasure is the highest good.

Perhaps this is because when first impulses are followed instead of the wise consideration of choices and avoidances, an individual may end up with a unpleasant result.

Another question: does desire cause one to be "blinded" or unable to clearly observe reality?

Desire is a motivator (both a feeling and a thought) to take a specific action when we believe that what we do will result in pleasure and enjoyment. Pleasure is just an end result when life-serving human needs are met. Yet desire and pleasure get all tangled up. (There is still more introspection which I myself need to do on this).

Quote from Kalosyni

Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

Overall, pleasure just has a terrible reputation, for some reason even non religious friends of mine do not desire to admit pleasure is the highest good.

Perhaps this is because when first impulses are followed instead of the wise consideration of choices and avoidances, an individual may end up with a unpleasant result.

Great point. What happens is after a good length of time choosing pleasures which lead to more pains, the person grows disillusioned. They are then introduced to Stoicism\Islam\Christianity\newage\Buddhism and because of the many restrictions of those belief systems it leads to a life of less pain and overall more pleasure due to the removal of the pleasures which led to greater pains (whatever they were for the person)

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5. It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly, and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living pleasantly. Whenever any one of these is lacking, when, for instance, the person is not able to live wisely, though he lives well and justly, it is impossible for him to live a pleasant life.

Most of these beliefs also lead to practicing some form of Virtue Ethics (8 fold path, Decalogue, Shariah etc..) which makes life more pleasurable or is conducive to long term pleasure.

I guess what I am trying to say is that they are beguiled by the belief system when really all that has happened is they are more careful with their hedonic calculation.