Posts by Eoghan Gardiner

41. At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy.

The fact of modern life is that we need to work in order to support ourselves and not many people enjoy their jobs (I for one don't but try to have a good time with my colleagues when at work)

It seems to me the above Vatican saying is the attitude we must have within in order to live a pleasant life at work. As any irish mother of the past few centuries would tell us managing a household is not easy especially when children are young and so i think we can make a comparison between managing the house hold which epicurus speaks about to working a regular job.

For most people, if giving the choice they wouldn't go to work as much as they do, especially considering that working your whole life is not a guarantee of security and definitely not a guarantee of a pleasurable life.

How many times have we heard of men and women in their 70s beginning to enjoy retirement and then their natural end has come?

We can't escape work, so we must enjoy work. Epicurus tells us how "philosophise, laugh and proclaim the words of philosophy".

Philosophise: We can always think or have handy near us some sayings of Epicurus, we can read the succulent words and meditate on them and internalise them more and more finally making them our own words. We can keep in mind that our end is pleasure and not worry about what the goodness is but instead we choose goodness which is none other than pleasure.

Laugh: The freedom to laugh freely, jts a free pleasure and easily attained. I take Epicurus advice and think back to good times with friends, funny jokes I've heard or just laugh with joy that we are free from the bonds of idealism and abstract notions of what being good is. I can laugh with joy at the fact of being alive.

Proclaim the true words of philosophy: to never cease proclaiming to myself and if the chance arrives to others Epicurus doctrine. To talk about it at any time as it is easy to talk about we don't need to go through countless syllogism but instead we can make talking philosophy what it is supposed to be namely fun.

I'm trying to think of ways and attitudes to apply epicurus sayings to life.

This topic is something I struggle with till this day... I was raised catholic and have gone back forth from catholicism to epicurean philosophy many times...I was even a catholic monk for a short time.

There is a reason PD1 is so important. Anyway I don't have much to add but I know the feeling of a religion feeling inescapable...I believe Cassius may have similar experience if I recall from previous conversation years ago now..

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Don

Quote from Don

"If it feels good, do it" is Cyrenaic.

I have to wonder if even the Cyrenaics were so short-sighted. Wish we had more texts from them too.

I have to wonder too. I've lived that lifestyle it just eventually leads to a lot of pain.

Don Yeah thanks for the qualification!

When someone says certain pleasures are better than others I have to ask WHY? The only answer is that this certain pleasure feels better to that individual.

My point is there is no objective better or worse pleasure it's all subjective to the individual. This idea of separating pleasures into higher or low, or separating pleasure from happiness is just wrong. Pleasure is the guide to happiness and happiness is feeling pleasurable.

People like to say wouldn't you prefer to read a good book rather than have an orgasm or eating a good chocolate bar as if there is some objective standard. Quite frankly I answer it depends on what I'm in the mood for. Maybe I'm being too simplistic I just don't think epicurus would have objective lists of which pleasures are better.

Enjoyment vs pleasure...how can I know if I enjoy something if it doesn't feel pleasurable. Can I use a syllogism to figure out if I enjoy something or can I just feel it?

one thing I didn't appreciate when I was younger (around 2017) was that the physics of Epicureanism is the foundation of the ethics. Its not something that we can let behind but it should be something that we mention with out ethics.

Many modern "philosophies of life" deny the physics of their founders, which means they have no foundation for their ethics. The ancients realised that we must draw our ethics from what we think of the world..I think this is key and something I'm only appreciating lately.

For my own experience, I found EFT or emotional focused therapy much better than CBT. It doesn't deny emotional states and treats emotional states as what they are supposed to be, namely guides for choosing or avoiding.

When you constantly feel a painful emotion it's a sign from nature that you need to do something.

very enjoyable!

Hello all,

something I have been thinking about lately is emotional states, specifically negative ones. It seems to me feeling anxious or feeling down (not clinically but simply for a period of time) are very painful, however I completely disagree with the Stoics who give techniques to manage or even repress these emotions as that leads to an unhappy life and eventually a distrust of emotions.

An Epicurean will feel his or hers emotions more deeply, but our goal overall is pleasure and everything should be oriented to feeling real pleasure (as opposed the potential pleasure or virtue, as we say in Ireland “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”. Should we therefore try not to feel our negative emotions deeply?

Also as a side note, the tranquility epicurean view seems to silly and also unacceptable. Who can stop themselves from feeling pain? Anxiety or sadness can occur for any reason or no reason at all.

My thoughts are simply now to examine the feeling and see what purpose it is serving me, am I having thoughts causing it or is it the result of an action? Is it warning me of something painful?

Taking its usefulness into regard, it seems preferable to feel anxiety and sadness sometimes (again not clinical such as anxiety disorder or depression, get help if you suffer from these) but only if it can help identify a threat of further pain or it can help identify an action we took which lead to this anxiety so we can avoid it in the future.

In this regard we Epicureans have a “friendly” relationship with our healthy emotional (non clinical) even if they are painful. It’s very different than other philosophies such as stoicism and Christianity which threat negative emotions as enemies no matter what (even if they aid in obtaining pleasure) or in the latter case proof of your guilt.

My thoughts are still fresh in thinking about this so forgive my unrefined writings, what are your thoughts on this?

For me what it means to be an Epicurean is to live under the idea that our senses are actually useful. To live in a way that allows the fullness of all our faculties. That puts reason in its rightful place and to be grounded in the world and not in abstractions.

To be an Epicurean is to live pleasurably, unashamedly and to be free from the guilt of Catholicism. To view our bodies as who and what we are, Not something which we merely use as a “vessel” for our true selves or a corrupt wretched thing.

To be free from foolish ideas that bring only pain, to free reason from the bonds of superstition and to be at ease with what we are and our position in this universe.

Hello everyone,

I hope everyone is having a pleasant day. I have created a YouTube video speaking about Epicurean philosophy. It is very much ad hoc and meant to peak peoples interest to research our philosophy.

I hope it may help even one person look deeper into Epicureanism.

No certainly not throughout most of Ireland, although many in our capital would rather emulate the British. Ireland certainly wouldn't allow her free speech to be taken that's for sure. We are called the "fighting" Irish for a reason!

I have many friends who are Muslim, they are nice people. I also have family who are Muslim as they live in South Africa. I used to a Muslim when I was a teenager but it's an extremely dangerous religion. I don't agree with Tommy Robinson on a lot, I think at some times he is bigoted for no reason but his points about Islam hit the mark a lot.

It's saddens me that people would rather be a good citizen, even to a state like England which blocks sites and filter information than a good person. My personal view when I first read that quote of Epicurus from Seneca is probably the same as yours: "Avoid politics is probably best for a life of pleasure, however if the circumstance arrives such as suppression of free speech, get involved."

Amazing, simply amazing. Wow this is really the first modern presentation on Epicurus this long? That's shocking to me. Ah if only I could understand Greek.

Another one about the misconception of Epicurean philosophy - opinions welcome!! Thank you Cassius hopefully the blog helps me develop as an Epicurean

Hey guys I decided to make an Epicurean blog, I always wanted to do a blog and I may as well do it on something I am really interested in. If you guys could read it and critique I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much!

http://hedonismepicureanirelan…epicurean-philosophy.html

Hi Cassius thanks for the reply I meant to say "Epicureans AREN'T ascetics". I will change that now!

Also I will use this message as a platform to respond to you later!

"It turns out that embracing Hedonism and Epicureanism may be the best, and the kindest thing we can do for ourselves". I am beginning to agree with this, she did a very good presentation and Cassius your questions are exactly the ones which would be asked my audience, I am going to try answer some of them as a "neophyte" Epicurean:

All this sounds fine, but why should I accept Epicurus' opinion that a simple life is all I should want out of life? Aren't there more important things than pleasure and pain? Shouldn't I live so that I will go to heaven, and not go to hell? Those things are more important than pleasure and pain aren't they?

1. To an Epicurean there is no life after death. Living is the presence of sensation, everything you do is based on a sensation of some sort (thinking, eating, sleeping) To an Epicurean there is no separation of body and mind they are one in the same when the body shuts down so does the brain.

Haven't we always been taught that nothing good comes easily? Why should the best part of life be easy to obtain? I see people around me suffering and dying in misery and pain all the time. They didn't find a happy life easy to obtain. Doesn't that show that Epicurus was wrong?

2. Things which people pursue in modern society such as excess wealth, power and others opinion have no limit, they can never be sated even for a short time on the contrast things provided by Nature can be gained easily and sated easily such as food, warmth and relaxation. Modern people have a wrong view on what makes them happy.

I seem to hear you saying that avoidance of pain is the highest goal. Are you really saying that? If so, why shouldn't I avoid all pain by killing myself?

3. The highest goal is pleasure. To an Epicurean the best way to avoid pain is to be "full" of pleasure (and I would explain the full cup here)

Ok, we won't go to extremes like killing ourselves, After all, moderation in all things, right? But I hear you saying that the simplest life is the best. If I really want the best life, shouldn't I go ONLY for bread, water, and a cave to get out of the weather? That would be the purest application of Epicurus, wouldn't it?

4. Epicureans aren't ascetics, bread and water can easily be attained and are an easy pleasure to get (of course in modern times there are a lot more easily got foods) but this doesn't mean that we can't partake in other pleasures, in fact we definitely should but just remember that bread and water are always there, if other pleasures can't be got.

did I hear you say that we should never want power? I live in a pretty bad neighborhood, and the people in the country next door are talking about invading our country. Right about now I would really like the power to put the criminals in jail and the power to stop the invaders before they burn my house. How can that be wrong - but you said I should NEVER seek power?

5. Then I would say it is acceptable, if a rival nation threatens your ability to pursue the true goal of life and wishes to enforce pain on you and your loved ones, then yes get power. The power which Epicurus refers to is power over people, power over the universe or in other words a power which has no true end and can never be sated. This view of power is false as you will never reach pleasure from it because it can never be sated, even for short amount of time.

OK now I hear you saying that "static" pleasure is the best kind of pleasure, and that comes from absence of pain and not from the senses. But then you've also said that static pleasure "feels good." Are you trying to have it both ways? If the best kind of pleasure feels good, then I understand what you mean? But what kind of pleasure is worth having that I can't feel?

6. ( I am not sure about this one but I will make an attempt) - To an Epicurean all pleasures must be felt, a static pleasure is where you simply don't have to do anything for it to occur. (perhaps this has something to do with the full cup analogy? I am not sure how to answer this sorry)