Discussion of the thread - Against Katastematic Supremacy - Pleasure Is A Unified Whole And Not A House Divided - Forum Editorial Policy

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    "I want my life of pleasure to be stable and established."

    Does a sentence like that serve as a bullet train to living on bread and water and denouncing pleasure? Or does it simply remind you that you want your "life of pleasure" -- the life that Diogenes of Oinoanda and Torquatus explictly state to be what Epicurus taught as the meaning of happiness -- to be complete and stable and enduring?

    Why would anyone take that expression - with simple and unthreatening adjectives like "complete" and "enduring" -- and then conclude from it "what I want is not really pleasure at all!"?

    They wouldn't - unless they have another agenda besides recognizing Pleasure to be the supreme good. While I don't think anyone here does that, I am completely sure that what has motivted comprimisers for hundreds of years - from Gassendi on down to today - is a desire to apologize for pleasure and make it acceptable to the religious and moralistic orthodoxy.

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    I'm quite late to this topic. This is my short understanding, i want to know if Cassius finds this acceptable or in line with new policy.

    - Kinetic and Katastematic Pleasure are not superior to one or the other (100 percent agree), I think it was a concept that Epicurus and Metrodorus said in Diogenes Laertius, but not super important. I think practically Epicurus may have focused more on things which disturb us when we rest, but he didn't think tranquility was in any way "better" than constant partying unaccompanied by any pain, as PD10 clearly says.

    - This article really likes Boris Nikolsky's thesis as i see, but i personally find Diogenes quote of Metrodorus that "Pleasure can be thought of both as consisting in motion and as static" (Bailey) to be too strong to say they don't have this concept, along with Epicurus quote as a backup, and i generally find Cicero reliable, he's hostile, but i don't consider him a liar who doesn't understand Epicureanism, i don't think he would just make this up.

    - In my reading, Kinetic pleasure is a kind of pleasure which comes by some kind of relief or "stimulation" of the senses, in other words a movement of the senses, such as the sudden removal of pain, but also thinks like tasty food. Katastematic Pleasure is pleasure without any "stimulation" or recent change or motion, such as Healthiness, Tranquility, etc. However, i strongly think it's not just removal of pain which counts as a kinetic pleasure, or a "replenishment" view, disagreeing with Arenson (2019), who i think has this view. I could be wrong on this though. Epicurus seems to call these "titillations of the senses," Usener 440, Cicero, On The Nature of The Gods, I.40.113, see also Usener 412-414 for "titillations"

    Hope this helps.

    Edited 2 times, last by wbernys (July 21, 2026 at 7:05 PM).

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