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Bryan
July 18, 2025 at 6:42 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Although I think that would require adding τοῦ before καλοῦ, giving μετὰ [τοῦ] καλοῦ πλείονος, but even then we would expect μετὰ πλείονος [τοῦ] καλοῦ -- all of which is more of a change than from πλειονος to παιωνος.
In further support of this, we do… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 18, 2025 at 2:24 PM It seems to me that the content of many of our Lucretius Today episodes over the last several years makes them worthy of exposure to a wider audience. I am therefore going to experiment with creating edited transcripts of them for posting as articles on… -
Cassius
July 18, 2025 at 2:06 PM Replied to the thread Episode 190 - Cicero's On Ends - Book One - Part 01.PostFighting Back Against the Anti-Epicureans - Part 01
The following episode of episode 190 of the Lucretius Today podcast was released on August 28, 2023. This transcript is being republished as part of a new series of articles entitled "Fighting Back… -
Kalosyni
July 18, 2025 at 8:17 AM Replied to a comment by Pacatus on the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Reply (Image/Video)Pacatus My idea was to keep the categories at a fairly high level of abstraction. I am not sure that those specific pleasures you mentioned are necessary for everyone. And thinking further I should probably remove music and traveling from the list if… -
Don
July 18, 2025 at 7:14 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostAnd if you go back to our discussion at the start of this thread: remember that παιωνος "triumph song" doesn't appear in the manuscript. It's πλειονος. -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 9:25 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Yeah, no explicit reference to that word, just the general idea of dismissing death.
[…]
I'm glad you brought this up because I want your take on it. I read ζῆν as an infinitive, so, even though its awkward, I try to squeeze a "to..." into the… -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 8:48 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
I am not seeing a reference to fears. I am seeing "...but whenever what must happen (τὸ χρεών) leads us out: having greatly spat on life and on those who cling to it in vain, we go out of life..."
(Although, of course, τὸ ζῆν is more "living"… -
Pacatus
July 17, 2025 at 5:49 PM Commented on the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Comment (Image/Video)I love this. Especially: “how life is a full rainbow of adding pleasure and removing pain.”
With due reference to the discussion of "katastematic hedonism” here: Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism", I wonder what katastematic pleasures… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 5:24 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 3:58 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
I'd say ... paraphrasing, it could mean, either: [1] we are to live while embracing the grand inevitability of death, or else, [2] we are to live while spitting upon the universal fear of death. -
DaveT
July 17, 2025 at 3:49 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostComments please.
I've come across the following post questioning the attribution of VS 47 to Epicurus himself: VS 47" I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And we will not give ourselves up as captives to… -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 2:47 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
We do have Johannes Stobaeus (fl. f. 450 CE) in his Anthology: volume 3, chapter 17, section 24 quoting Epicurus: "I teem with what is pleasant for this little body – using only water and bread – and I spit on the pleasures from extravagances: not… -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 2:18 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostHow does this relate to the phrasing of the fragment translated as about spitting on good (or is it beauty?) unless it bring pleasure? -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 2:09 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostI just wanted to add another brief reflection on the "embracing" versus "spitting" nuance:
There are a variety of ways in which people seem to interface with death: fearing death, fleeing from death, fighting death, chasing immortality, damning life, … -
Bryan
July 17, 2025 at 12:49 PM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostIf we take the sigma, I think we have προσπτύω. Given the active form of προσπτύσαντες, it is difficult to pair with προσπτύσσομαι. -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 12:37 PM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post[…]
You have passed all applicable tests!
In fact in the future we may have to come up with a new award for future use: "Users who no one would ever dream are using AI!" -
Adrastus
July 17, 2025 at 11:18 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostI sometimes like to use some strange phrasings for fun, and to a lesser extent, to demonstrate in some way I didn't use any A.I. to write.
Yes, I see Epicurus' last day as a preparation for death. An acceptance but relishing in the memories of close… -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 11:02 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post -
Eikadistes
July 17, 2025 at 10:47 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Great question!
I found differing renderings from different authors. Bailey seems to be an outlier in his transposition; note the verb προπτύσαντες (proptúsantes) versus προσπτύσαντες (prosptúsantes).
Screenshot 2025-07-17 at 10.33.27 AM.png
The first… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 10:37 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.Post[…]
Yes. I believe προσπτυσαντες conveys literally spitting upon.
Another curiosity of this VS is that it's Metrodorus writing and not Epicurus. -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 9:34 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostIn the meantime here is the Epicurism.info version with the Greek:
https://wiki.epicurism.info/Vatican_Saying_47/
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Kalosyni
July 17, 2025 at 8:59 AM Replied to the thread VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere.PostVS47. "I have anticipated thee, Fortune, and entrenched myself against all thy secret attacks. And I will not give myself up as captive to thee or to any other circumstance; but when it is time for me to go, spitting contempt on life and on those who… -
Kalosyni
July 17, 2025 at 8:55 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostI have some questions about the wording of VS47 and will ask over in this thread for examining the translation:
VS47 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 and elsewhere -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 8:08 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post[…]
Good post Adrastas and I agree with it, but it might be worth discussing the two words I underlined there, "despair" and "unassuagedly disturbed." I don't think Joshua or I used those words in the podcast, and this would be worth discussing.
All these… -
Don
July 17, 2025 at 7:23 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.Post -
Adrastus
July 17, 2025 at 7:02 AM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostBrings me so much joy hearing this episode. I feel like the ataraxic mind guards against the perils and pains of life, but I think Epicurus redeems the somewhat listless ataraxic state by arguing that emotions are there to guide us towards a sagely life… -
Cassius
July 17, 2025 at 4:05 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to ehaimerl! Learn more about ehaimerl and say happy birthday on ehaimerl's timeline: ehaimerl -
Kalosyni
July 16, 2025 at 7:54 PM Uploaded the image A Life Full of Pleasure.Image/Video -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 4:55 PM Posted the thread Welcome Ehaimerl!.ThreadWelcome ehaimerl
There is one last step to complete your registration:
All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).
You must post your response within 24 hours,… -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 3:31 PM Posted the thread Episode 291 - TD21 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 291 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world.
Each week we walk you through the… -
Cassius
ThreadJuly 16, 2025 at 3:28 PM Episode title derives from a comment made by Joshua during the podcast.
Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 3:25 PM Replied to the thread Episode 290 - TD20 - TipToeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living.PostEpisode 290 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. Today our episode is entitled: "Tiptoeing Around All Disturbance Is Not Living"
[media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/67001846/media -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 2:39 PM Replied to the thread Welcome DistantLaughter!.PostDistantLaughter Laughter, please contact me directly (Cassius @ EpicureanFriends.com ) before posting any further. -
Martin
July 16, 2025 at 12:54 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Simteau!.PostWelcome Simteau! -
Kalosyni
July 16, 2025 at 9:48 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Simteau!.PostWelcome to the forum Simteau !
You may like to check out this introductory video by Cassius:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=6iXCI88Z64U
Please feel free to ask any questions you may have here in this thread. 😊 -
Cassius
July 16, 2025 at 5:14 AM Posted the thread Welcome Simteau!.ThreadHi there,
Great to start my Epicurean Friends journey here. I look forward to participating where I can and being an empty vessel to fill with learning. -
Rolf
July 16, 2025 at 5:14 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Simteau!.PostGlad to have you with us, Simteau! -
Simteau
July 16, 2025 at 3:19 AM Replied to the thread Welcome Simteau!.PostHi there,
Great to start my Epicurean Friends journey here. I look forward to participating where I can and being an empty vessel to fill with learning. -
Eikadistes
July 15, 2025 at 3:37 PM Replied to the thread Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism".PostIt knows everything.
Ask it anything, no matter how absurd.
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Cassius
July 15, 2025 at 12:40 PM Replied to the thread Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux.PostDaveT the font style options appear under the three dots with the drop down next to it in the menu bar above each editing screen.
[…]
I do think that physics and philosophy intersect, and it seems to me that clearly Epicurus thought so also. Use of physics… -
Matteng
July 15, 2025 at 12:11 PM Replied to the thread Perspectives On "Proving" That Pleasure is "The Good".PostMaybe neuro science will prove it someday.
Can there be anything "good" without a positiv affection ? Isn´t that ( positive affection / pleasure ) and the desire for that, what differentiates us against robots ?
When Pleasure/Pain is the core of all… -
DaveT
July 15, 2025 at 12:05 PM Replied to the thread Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux.PostCassius (forgive the Bold type, I can't see how to change it) Regarding your comments about the Krauss book above, and physics for the layperson. His book is from 2013, and over the last 12 years there have been around 30000 reviews posted on
… -
Cassius
July 15, 2025 at 9:57 AM Replied to the thread Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism".Post[…]
Yep, it's like a Japanese Godzilla movie with the monster rising out of the ocean, but short of global thermonuclear war I don't see what can stop it! i suppose the usual course of events is that some other weapon / technology has to arise to oppose… -
Eikadistes
July 15, 2025 at 9:50 AM Replied to the thread Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux.Post[…]
This is great. Chomsky often comes to mind when I think about prolepsis.
I'm glad you mentioned it. -
Eikadistes
July 15, 2025 at 9:46 AM Replied to the thread Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism".Post[…]
No doubt.
This is why everyone in the forum should be aware that your search queries are going to use confirmation bias as a tool to provide you with satisfying (not necessarily true) results.
[…]
Good guess, AI, but not true in this case.
Working in IT… -
DistantLaughter
July 15, 2025 at 5:37 AM Replied to the thread Perspectives On "Proving" That Pleasure is "The Good".PostSharon Street’s critique in “Nothing ‘Really’ Matters, but That’s Not What Matters” is not merely directed at the attempt to prove that pleasure is the good, but at any metaethical framework that assumes real normativity must be grounded in a… -
Cassius
July 15, 2025 at 5:35 AM Replied to the thread Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism".PostAnd yet at the same time that we point out the problems with AI, we can predict with grim certainty that AI is going to take the world by storm just as Epicurus took Italy in the time of Cicero, with Ai's influence being much less beneficial.
This will… -
Cassius
July 15, 2025 at 5:30 AM Replied to the thread Perspectives On "Proving" That Pleasure is "The Good".Post[…]
That statement and much of the rest of the information you've presented there DL jumps out at me as needing emphasis and expansion. We're not talking here about applying that simply to "Pleasure is the good" but to any assertion which seeks to… -
Cassius
July 15, 2025 at 5:21 AM Replied to the thread Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux.PostGreat post, DL.
[…]
By my reading, this is where DeWitt's focus on what Velleius has to say in "On The Nature of the Gods," rather than solely on what Diogenes Laertius has to say, places Epicurus closer to what you are describing as the Chomsky position. … -
Martin
July 15, 2025 at 5:06 AM Replied to the thread Preuss - "Epicurean Ethics - Katastematic Hedonism".PostThe worst part of that AI overview is that the AI misrepresents our position in a way that it appears to contradict Epicurus' philosophy. A reader with some familiarity with Epicurus but not us is likely to dismiss epicureanfriends.com.
This shows that…
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