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Discussion on Ataraxia: freedom from anxiety....What is it?...How can we attain it in a world mad with chaos and conflict?

  • Raphael Raul
  • December 1, 2023 at 11:14 AM
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  • Raphael Raul
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    • December 1, 2023 at 11:14 AM
    • #1

    Discussion on Ataraxia: freedom from anxiety.
    ...What is it?...How can we attain it in a world mad with chaos and conflict?

    In a society filled with a barrage of messages through all sorts of media communicating all the world's strife,

    conflicts and wars, how can we let go of this relentless confusion and find peace of mind and tranquility?

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 2, 2023 at 8:01 AM
    • #2
    Quote from Raphael Raul

    In a society filled with a barrage of messages through all sorts of media communicating all the world's strife,

    conflicts and wars, how can we let go of this relentless confusion and find peace of mind and tranquility?

    First, we must realize that war has existed all through history, so we aren't in some kind of unique time. And in many countries we actually have more peace now than ever before.

    In Epicurus' time: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:…lenistic_period

    To calm our anxieties, we study the elements of Epicurean philosophy. We accustom ourselves to not fear death, because death is an inevitability for each one of us. For some it may come sooner than for others. And while we are alive we learn to live the best and most enjoyable and pleasant life as possible by considering what is necessary both for the health of the body and the happiness of the soul. We practice moving toward actions and activities that bring happiness and bliss, and these "crowd out" the unnecessary anxieties which earlier arose from the incorrect understanding of the nature of things (as well as the anxieties which arose from incorrect perspectives on reality).

  • Don
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    • December 2, 2023 at 7:17 PM
    • #3

    I agree with Kalosyni 's post.

    I would emphasize that ataraxia is not dependent on external circumstances. It is a stable state of mind that arises from getting rid of false anxiety-producing ideas about death, divine retribution, fate, and so on. The stable peace of mind that results will then be the default position from which one experiences the world.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 2, 2023 at 7:28 PM
    • #4
    Quote from Don

    I would emphasize that ataraxia is not dependent on external cicircumstances.

    I would venture to say that ataraxia depends upon safety and security. Resilience is something different which would be the ability to cope during high stress.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 2, 2023 at 8:39 PM
    • #5

    These Principal Doctrines touch on resilience:

    PD39: The person who has put together the best means for confidence about external threats is one who has become familiar with what is possible and at least not unfamiliar with what is not possible, but who has not mixed with things where even this could not be managed and who has driven away anything that is not advantageous.

    PD40: All those who have the power to obtain the greatest confidence from their neighbors also live with each other most enjoyably in the most steadfast trust; and experiencing the strongest fellowship they do not lament as pitiful the untimely end of those who pass away.

  • Don
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    • December 3, 2023 at 12:22 AM
    • #6
    Quote from Kalosyni
    Quote from Don

    I would emphasize that ataraxia is not dependent on external circumstances.

    I would venture to say that ataraxia depends upon safety and security. Resilience is something different which would be the ability to cope during high stress.

    I agree that resilience and ataraxia are different things, but I don't see ataraxia being dependent on external circumstances. Ataraxia is the stable pleasure achieved when the fears and anxieties have been rooted out. For example:

    In the Letter to Herodotus (10.82):

    mental tranquillity (ataraxia) means being released from all these troubles and cherishing a continual remembrance of the highest and most important truths.

    In the Letter to Menoikeus (10.128):

    The steady contemplation of these things equips one to know how to decide all choice and rejection for the health of the body and for the tranquility (ataraxia) of the mind, that is for our physical and our mental existence, since this is the goal of a blessed life. For the sake of this, we do everything in order to neither be in bodily or mental pain nor to be in fear or dread; and so, when once this has come into being around us, it sets free all of the calamity, distress, and suffering of the mind...

    In the Letter to Pythocles:

    [85] In the first place, remember that, like everything else, knowledge of celestial phenomena, whether taken along with other things or in isolation, has no other end in view than peace of mind (ataraxia) and firm conviction (confidence, assurance, guarantee, trust < πίστις).

    [96] For in all the celestial phenomena such a line of research is not to be abandoned ; for, if you fight against clear evidence, you never can enjoy genuine peace of mind (ataraxia).

    The characteristic of the sage that "Additionally, once the sage has become wise, they will no longer fall back into ignorance." (Hicks: Moreover, he who has once become wise never more assumes the opposite habit, not even in semblance, if he can help it.)

    From my reading, all of these point to ataraxia being the result of rooting out incorrect beliefs and the fears and anxieties that arise from them. Once those are abandoned, they don't grow back, regardless of external circumstances. I believe Epicurus could still experience ataraxia even in his last days precisely because it doesn't rely on external circumstances.

    I agree that resilience - what I would interpret as self-reliance - is a part of Epicurean philosophy, but I think it's different than ataraxia. Ataraxia is the stable state of the mind once the anxiety, fears, and disturbances have been eradicated, rooted out, and abandoned. That is precisely what gives it its stability.

  • Martin
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    • December 3, 2023 at 1:39 AM
    • #7

    Ataraxia can be affected by circumstances if they are extreme . While I am on a zip-line, ataraxia as a goal is temporarily suspended to gain exceptional pleasure from the experience of nearly flying and the spectacular views. While I am on a plane in heavy turbulence, under immediate threat by a violent robber or in a combat situation, ataraxia is suspended until the danger has passed. The temporary disappearance or reduction of ataraxia under extreme circumstances is compatible with all quotes in Don's comment #6. A wise Epicurean will avoid getting into such circumstances most of the time but may not always be able to avoid them.

  • Don
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    • December 3, 2023 at 10:15 AM
    • #8

    I disagree.

    My current understanding is that ataraxia is not merely the "calm" or "tranquility" we get from relaxing on a beach or floating in an inner tube down a river or even on a meditation cushion. Those pleasures feel good, but they're not ataraxia. I take it that kind of "calm" is what's being described by Martin and Kalosyni .

    My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back. It becomes the background against which life is experienced. It's is a stable state of the mind. That's what I'm getting from the texts. We can get glimpses of it as we study, reflect, and internalize "how things are" but it's not easy to throw the baggage of cultural indoctrination overboard. It doesn't happen all at once like some kind of epiphany or Buddhist satori or bestowed by the grace of some heavenly being. It takes human work and effort. But it's worth it in the long run to face the world with an assured, solid, stable mind.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 3, 2023 at 7:53 PM
    • #9
    Quote from Don

    My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back.

     

    Epicurus instructs how to remove the false beliefs regarding the fear of gods and the fear of death.

    This post has more references:

    Post

    RE: The Meaning of the Greek Word "Ataraxia"

    From a prior post by Don:

    Feb 19th 2023

    #2

    ΑΤΑΡΑΞΙΑ (Ataraxia and related terms: Note that αταραξια is literally "ataraksia" even though the usual English spelling is "ataraxia." Therefore, words that have atarak- are directly related.

    From ἀ- (a-, “not”) +‎ ταράσσω (tarássō, “trouble, disturb”) +‎ -ῐ́ᾱ (-íā); Antonyms: τᾰρᾰχή (tarakhḗ)

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ἀτα^ρ-αξία

    PD17 One who acts aright is utterly steady and serene, whereas one who goes astray is full of…
    Cassius
    December 3, 2023 at 7:13 PM
  • Martin
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    • December 4, 2023 at 4:59 AM
    • #10
    Quote

    I take it that kind of "calm" is what's being described by Martin ...

    No.

    Quote


    My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, ...

    Agreed.

    Quote

    ..., but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back.

    This is the case while we are fully conscious with properly functioning mind. However, while we are asleep and therefore our ability to use logic is turned off, they can temporarily come back. In earlier years, I made the following observations: Sometimes while in deep sleep, I experienced extreme fear which took a minute or more to disappear when suddenly waking up from deep sleep, without that I could even tell what caused the fear because deep sleep appears to be dreamless. By contrast, when suddenly waking up from a bad dream, the fear experienced during the dream went away almost instantly.

    The way Epicurus states that the wise man does not become unwise allows for a temporary lack of wisdom: "..., he who has once become wise never more assumes the opposite habit, ...".

    Being wise includes logic. When awake but extremely tired, our ability to use logic is turned off. In that state, I sometimes acted unwisely by e.g. overwriting or deleting a file which I wanted to keep or save, turning off the computer the wrong way, closing a book without moving the bookmark to the new position, misplacing objects.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 4, 2023 at 8:54 AM
    • #11

    This thread reminds me that we need a list of Epicurean "remedies" for anxiety and fear. (I may have started that already somewhere :/ ). And then we need corresponding sections of text to accompany each.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 4, 2023 at 9:01 AM
    • #12

    And when I think of remedies such as "accustom yourself to see that death is nothing to us" ...this is a deep and long practice, that takes time. And you will obviously still feel your autonomic reflexes kick in to prevent you from being run over by a bus. So this remedy is instead for the quiet anxiety that may arise in the middle of night as you ponder your mortality. And also we may feel we have conquered our fear, only to discover that when faced with an incurable disease that we may have to "start over" in a sense with the process, and deal with mortality given the new information. This is just our humanness (since we aren't gods 8o ).

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    • December 4, 2023 at 9:23 AM
    • #13
    Quote from Kalosyni

    ..this is a deep and long practice, that takes time

    The kind of thing to have a list to remind yourself daily to think about.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 4, 2023 at 10:26 AM
    • #14

    I started this list, but haven't yet added the text references:

    Thread

    List of Epicurean philosophical remedies

    List of human life issues for which there are Epicurean philosophical remedies (there are specific Principal Doctrines and Vatican Sayings (etc) which address these issues).

    There are Epicurean remedies for the following:

    --anxiety that arises when realizing we are mortal and will one day die.

    --anxiety that arises when we notice a drive to preserve our life for as long as possible.

    --anxiety and fear that arises when we are sick and experience pain in the body (understanding the nature of pain).…
    Kalosyni
    November 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM
  • Godfrey
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    • December 4, 2023 at 3:43 PM
    • #15
    Quote from Martin

    Sometimes while in deep sleep, I experienced extreme fear which took a minute or more to disappear when suddenly waking up from deep sleep, without that I could even tell what caused the fear because deep sleep appears to be dreamless.

    That sounds like it may have been sleep apnea.

  • Don
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    • December 4, 2023 at 3:44 PM
    • #16

    Thanks, Martin , for that clarification. You make some thought-provoking points.

    Your post made me think of this from my musings about the characteristics:

    Epicurean Sage - The same person whether awake or asleep
    Hicks: and he will be like himself even when asleep. Yonge: he will be the same man asleep and awake; Mensch: He will be himself even when asleep. Mensch notes…
    sites.google.com
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    • December 5, 2023 at 3:29 AM
    • #17
    Quote

    That sounds like it may have been sleep apnea.

    It was not sleep apnea because I did not have lack of oxygen. Usually, I woke up because of the alarm clock or other noise. Deep sleep occurs early in a sleep cycle, not towards the end, such that we do not become aware of how much our subconsciousness may go wild during deep sleep if sleep is not interrupted early in its cycle.

  • kochiekoch
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    • December 5, 2023 at 8:04 PM
    • #18

    Martin,

    I wonder if you occasionally experience night terrors? I have in the past and my experience sounds similar to yours, even though, now that I think about it, I haven't for a long time.

    What is a Night Terror? - Sleep Doctor
    Confused about the difference between night terrors and nightmares? Learn how they differ, as well as more information about these parasomnias.
    sleepdoctor.com
  • Don
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    • December 5, 2023 at 8:06 PM
    • #19

    I think we're trying to diagnose Martin from a distance everyone. I think he's okay.

  • kochiekoch
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    • December 5, 2023 at 8:17 PM
    • #20

    LOL!!! I think he's OK too. Night terrors are pretty common stuff. :)

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