Posts by kochiekoch

HI all!

In tune with last nights discussion of Hegesias the 'Death Persuader' and Cyreniacism in general, I brought up the idea that Hegesias might have been dealing with the 'hedonic treadmill. The tendency of a person to become accustomed to stimuli, and no longer experience pleasure from formally pleasurable experiences. This is a well known phenomenon:

Defining the Hedonic Treadmill

Hedonic adaptation or “the hedonic treadmill” are terms that define how people generally return to the same level of happiness despite their circumstances.

www.verywellmind.com

Poor guy must have been so pleasured out that he couldn't experience pleasure anymore, and decided that the only thing left was to end his life. But, he was a philosopher, and so had to preach that to other people. With unfortunately disastrous results. The hedonic treadmill problem might be why Cyreniacism died out as a philosophical school, but Epicureanism survived. At least until the Christian era. Hegesias might represent what Cyreniacism evolved into and represent the school's late stage.

The Epicurean view of pleasure helps to avoid the hedonic treadmill which people might find themselves on, and on which he addresses in PD 10:

Principal Doctrine 10 - Epicurus Wiki

Here is the article I mentioned during Wednesday chat, which seems to agree with Lucretius on humans becoming softer and more social, enabling us to outcompete the less social Neanderthal people. A trait that has so far contributed to our remarkable success as a species.

8 billion people: how different the world would look if Neanderthals had prevailed

Neanderthals were wiped out by chance changes in the environment. The rise of Homo sapiens wasn’t inevitable.

theconversation.com

I would have labeled them like that. Busts of Hermarchus I've seen show him as a guy with an average head size. Busts of Metrodorus depict him as a man with a larger head and broad face.

They could have just fined him 787.5 million drachmas!

The mysticism.

Epicurus was materialist to the bone. Whereas Plato had his 'forms', out there in ozone, discernible, by reason; of which the reality we experience is but a pale image. Epicurus had his atoms everywhere at once, discernible by our natural faculties; forming our concrete reality.

The goal of life, according to Plato was to get in harmony with the universe, and it's alleged perfection. The goal of life according to Epicurus was pleasure, in our infinite, and purposeless universe.

Plato even encouraged the 'enlightened', as he defined them, to become involved in politics and govern. Epicurus took a different track with his admonishment to 'live unnoticed'.

Taking a look at both of them, Epicurus is like an un-Plato!

Platonism! He had his Garden on the same road as the competition. The Academy.

Dang! You beat me to it. LOL!!! I thought I had a new article to post!

The discussion on Canon, Reason and Nature, made me think of this old article on the difficulty religious and superstitious people have getting a firm grip on reality:

Study: Religious and Superstitious People Struggle to Understand the Physical World

People who believe in God or the supernatural don’t quite understand the physical world, claims a new study from researchers at the University of Helsinki.

bigthink.com

It was one of the questions Emily Austin had in her book as to why Epicurus would recommend the study of natural science as a path to tranquility. A world run by the caprices of gods and spirits doesn't sound that tranquil.

I've seen the hedonistic response in other places in history. Here's one example I dug up.

The Plague in Paris: Hedonism, Resignation, and the First Scientific Response

By Dorsey Armstrong, Ph.D., Purdue University The outbreak of the plague in Paris occurred relatively late, especially considering its early arrival in…

laptrinhx.com

LOL!!!! Having pleasure fall out of the sky is good. Or are easily available.

Remember, it's choice and avoidance. Avoid those pleasures from the sky that will crack your skull.

I see your cave analogy. Actually, the bread and water in the cave would be a very painful life. I'm told, that in prison, misbehaving prisoners are put in solitary confinement as a punishment. Denied the company, of other people, they suffer terribly both mentally and physically. It's the sort of thing the ACLU seeks to ban. We are social animals.

Steve

Quote from Cassius

So in other words, it is only your failure to succeed in being a good Epicurean that makes it appropriate for you to engage in chocolate, hugs, sex, and roller coaster rides???

If that is the case then may none of us succeed in becoming good Epicureans!!

No, perfection is a high bar. The Epicurean gods are perfect, but us, not so much. As good Epicureans, any kind of pleasure is welcome as it improves our state of mind!

Steve

LOL!!! Well..., I did ask you what you thought.

Thanks for all the extensive replies so quickly!

Although, I don't think the author is just saying that we should forgo ALL pleasures, for lack of pain; in as much as we reach that perfect level of contentment only rarely. Then, chocolate, hugs, sex, roller coaster rides, etc. serve to make us happier.

It's all choice and avoidance, so you're not causing yourself more trouble than it's worth.

I await your many replies!

Steve

I like Toby Sherman's take on Epicurean pleasure. See what you think:

ShermanT.pdf (exeter.ac.uk)

HI there! I like my icon. <G> This setup is a very nice forum.