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Neither "ataraxia" nor "not ataraxia", but "Joy as the goal"

  • Kalosyni
  • February 25, 2026 at 10:08 AM
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New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies 

  • Kalosyni
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    • February 25, 2026 at 10:08 AM
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    There is no mandate by gods that Epicurean philosophical thought should be promoted for the sake of progeny or for the future benefit of humanity (unlike various world religions) and there is no mandate to convert people to Epicureanism. Given that this is so, what likelihood is there on the continuation on into the future? Shall we then just relax and "enjoy the ride"? Or for any of us, is our main driving force for promotion so that we have "like-minded friends" to discuss Epicurean philosophy?

    There is no judge in the afterlife to declare that an Epicurean did not do what they were required to do. And indeed there are no requirements for doing things.

    As Epicureans, we do seem to fall into two "philosophical camps"...those that hold to the importance of ataraxia and aponia (free from physical and mental pain) and those that hold to the importance of a life filled up with prudent pleasures (both active and static, and more pleasures than pains).

    I would like to argue that we should not fall into either of these two camps, but first here is a comparison of this either/or dichotomy (fyi...made exclusively by me, and not AI):

    Ataraxia as the GoalPleasure as the Goal
    Seeking out the painful aspects of your life and removing what you canSeeking out the pleasurable aspects of your life and adding in what you can
    Being content with what you already haveLooking for more than what you already have
    Motivated by the desire to remove painMotivated by the desire to add pleasure
    Potential consequences: over-emphasis on relaxation and non-activity / non-effort. Frustration if you are not able to remove pains in your life.Potential consequences: over-emphasis on sensory pleasures. Feelings of dissatisfaction when you aren't able to experience what you want to experience (both physical and mental).


    I would like to propose a third way..."Joy as the goal" as I think that this puts a better spin on what is meant by "pleasure" in Epicurean philosophy...and I think it also leads to greater motivation to "get off one's bum" and make effort toward a good life. I do seem to remember that there is at least one reference to joy in the extant texts, but will need to track that down.

    I welcome any thoughts :)

  • Kalosyni February 25, 2026 at 10:13 AM

    Moved the thread from forum Uncategorized Discussion (General) to forum Ethics - General Discussion.
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    • February 25, 2026 at 10:33 AM
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    Quote from Kalosyni

    I would like to propose a third way..."Joy as the goal" as I think that this puts a better spin on what is meant by "pleasure" in Epicurean philosophy...and I think it also leads to greater motivation to "get off one's bum" and make effort toward a good life. I do seem to remember that there is at least one reference to joy in the extant texts, but will need to track that down.

    I agree that it is important to emphasize joy, and the failure to do so is a big problem in modern Epicurean discussion.

    However, from Diogenes Laertius:

    And Epicurus in the work on Choice speaks as follows: ‘Freedom from trouble in the mind and from pain in the body are static pleasures, but Joy and exultation are considered as active pleasures involving motion. '


    Joy falls within pleasure, not the other way around. I'd say what you are describing is one of many ways to explain that pleasure has many facets, but "joy" cannot replace "pleasure" as the global term. There are many types of pleasure which are also an important part of the goal but which do not fall within "joy."


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