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Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?

  • wbernys
  • May 7, 2026 at 8:21 PM
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New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations | Accelerating Study Of Canonics Through Philodemus' "On Methods Of Inference" | Note to all users: If you have a problem posting in any forum, please message Cassius  

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    wbernys
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    • May 7, 2026 at 8:21 PM
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    If any of you have seen the PhilSurvey, it asks a question about whether your normative ethics is consequentialist or virtue ethics or deontology. I think it's fair to say he's surely not deontology. But i struggle between putting him as a consequentialist or virtue ethicist.

    Obviously i know these are modern categories which may not fit Epicurus entirely but i personally think of him more as a Virtue ethicist rather than a strict consequentialist in large part because of the Letter to Menoceus.

    He says "And he considers it better to be rationally unfortunate than irrationally fortunate, since it is better for a beautiful choice to have the wrong results than for an ugly choice to have the right results just by chance." (Peter Saint-Andre). This seem to pain the picture of personal intentions mattering more than actual consequences.

    Along with Diogenes of Oenoanda saying "The sum of happiness consists in our disposition, of which we are master."

    I'm obviously not trying to say he is part of the Stoic "virtue in of itself" but he seems to stress personal character so much, even to the point of disregarding external consequences as seen above, that it feels wrong to consider him just a consequentialist, and perhaps listed as both a virtue ethicist and consequentialist together. Curious for other people's thoughts.

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    Cassius
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    • May 8, 2026 at 7:03 AM
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    I think you can find quotes such as the Diogenes of Oinonanda statement that talk about the importance of attitude, but why is attitude important? Why is virtue important? Because they bring pleasure, not as goals in themselves. So i'd push back strongly on this direction, and question why someone might think it "feels wrong" to think of him as a consequentialist if not for the psychological pressure of a culture built on virtue ethics.

    The conclusion of the philosophy is that the consequence that Nature (not society) calls for is pleasure, not virtue or anything else. Diogenes of Oinoanda himself has one of the most eloquent statements of this in his passage about shouting that a life of happiness is a life of pleasure, and that virtue is but a tool to pleasure, not the other way around.

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    Don
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    • May 8, 2026 at 7:20 AM
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    Quote from wbernys

    He says "And he considers it better to be rationally unfortunate than irrationally fortunate, since it is better for a beautiful choice to have the wrong results than for an ugly choice to have the right results just by chance." (Peter Saint-Andre). This seem to pain the picture of personal intentions mattering more than actual consequences.

    To me, that section doesn't point to intention but rather taking an active role in ones choices and rejections versus not letting chance rule what happens to you.

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    • May 8, 2026 at 8:37 AM
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    Further, even if you prefer the "beautiful" wording there (which I don't because of it's very Platonic ring) you can refer back to the adage that Epicurus spits upon the beautiful unless it brings pleasure.

    As I understand it the Hicks version is "[135] He believes that the misfortune of the wise is better than the prosperity of the fool. It is better, in short, that what is well judged in action should not owe its successful issue to the aid of chance."

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    • May 8, 2026 at 8:44 AM
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    It always irritates me when I can't find a quick reference

    I have the "spit upon the beautiful" as Bailey's fragment 79, but I am not quickly finding the Usener number

    Fragment Collection - Epicureanfriends.com
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    Don
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    • May 8, 2026 at 8:55 AM
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    Quote from Cassius

    I am not quickly finding the Usener number

    U181

    Epicurus: Fragments - translation

    And U512

    Epicurus: Fragments - translation (3)

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    • May 8, 2026 at 9:14 AM
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    Thanks Don! U512 seems to be the key - with the problem of finding it being that Usener uses "honorable" and "excellence" and "noble." That makes it harder to find when I key on "beautiful," but for purposes of this particular conversation these wordings are even more directly on point.

    U512

    Aetius, Doxography, XII p. 547A: And in his work On the End-Goal, he says again: “{=U70}” And in other passages, he says “I spit upon the honorable and those who vainly admire it, whenever it produces no pleasure.”

    Plutarch, Against Colotes, 30, p. 1124E: … and when men take for sages those who “spit on excellence, unless pleasure attends it.” [c.f. 1124E @ U368]

    Plutarch, Is “Live Unknown” a Wise Precept?, 4, p. 1129B: … to live together with Leontium and “spit on noble action,” and place the good in the “flesh” and in “titillations.”

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