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Questions re Pleasure

  • Matteng
  • November 9, 2024 at 5:35 AM
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  • Matteng
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    • November 9, 2024 at 5:35 AM
    • #1
    Quote from Kalosyni
    Quote from Cassius

    Why does Epicurus consider the absence of pain to be pleasure?

    When pain is absent from the body, the appreciation of that experience is mentally enjoyable.

    ***

    And here is a full list of pleasures:

    - enjoyable and pleasant bodily sensations (sights, sounds, tastes, touch, smell, etc.)

    - the cessation of pain in the body (when pain is no longer present) (pain = sharp, piercing, burning, stinging, throbing, heavy)

    - awareness that the body is healthy (no pain present)

    - enjoyable and pleasant mental feelings and thoughts (joy, clarity, calm, strength, gratitude)

    - the cessation of unpleasant emotions (fear, worry, anxiety)

    - awareness of a clear mind free from unpleasant emotions (fear, worry, anxiety)

    Display More

    A good list about Pleasures.
    One question:
    I see they some include/not include awareness/ attention / appreciation, so there is an active / virtuous activity to feel these pleasures.

    Are they then all kinetic pleasures ?

    Or what is when I am not aware of the absence of pain, is the absence of pain than a static ( kastatematic) pleasure ?

    Or is this a false categorizing ?
    Do I need a constant/active awareness for pleasure?

    Is there such a thing as nonrational and rational pleasure?
    As the 1. comes automatic from the body like eating tasteful, the 2. from eg. Gratefulness/ appreciation ?

  • Kalosyni
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    • November 9, 2024 at 10:01 AM
    • #2
    Quote from Matteng

    I see they some include/not include awareness/ attention / appreciation, so there is an active / virtuous activity to feel these pleasures.

    Vatican Saying 17: "It is not the young man who is most happy, but the old man who has lived beautifully; for despite being at his very peak the young man stumbles around as if he were of many minds, whereas the old man has settled into old age as if in a harbor, secure in his gratitude for the good things he was once unsure of."

    This says that the "young man" can look to and learn from the "old man" about how to live happily.

    Gratitude is pleasurable, and there is no need to label it "a virtue".

  • Matteng
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    • November 9, 2024 at 3:50 PM
    • #3

    To make it basic, how would you all label these pleasures with:

    -kinetik, kastatematic

    - rational/ or active produced( awareness, reflection, gratitude…) , nonrational/ or passive from body produced

    -Aponia/ Ataraxia

    ->
    1. Hungry: Pain

    2. Eat: Pleasure

    ? Kinetic( temporary), nonrational/ (bodily pleasure)

    3. Full/Not hungry: Pleasure

    ? Katastematic (static), bodily, Aponia

    4. Reasonable Hope to get full in future:

    Pleasure, Katastematic, rational joy (mind), Ataraxia ?

    5. Gratitude for ability to fulfilling necessary desires in future ( with help of virtue, friends/community):

    Pleasure, Katastematic, rational joy (mind), Ataraxia ?

    Have I forgotten something?

    Your thoughts?

    Edited once, last by Matteng (November 12, 2024 at 8:57 AM).

  • Kalosyni December 5, 2024 at 7:30 AM

    Moved the thread from forum General Discussion to forum Ethics - General Discussion (plus unfiled Ethics Threads).

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