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New "TWENTIERS" Website

  • Cassius
  • May 27, 2024 at 3:25 PM
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Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
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    • May 27, 2024 at 3:25 PM
    • #1

    I see that our friend Eikadistes has launched a brand new website where he collects much of his outstanding research into many aspects of Epicurean Philosophy. I have not had a chance to go through it yet so I can't comment on specific sections, but I thought I would go ahead and post this link for those who might be on the internet on Memorial day. I'm sure it will be excellent quality.

    Here's the link:

    Twentiers
    Hogs from the Herd
    twentiers.com
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    • May 28, 2024 at 10:25 AM
    • #2

    Thank you for the recognition! The contents are essentially copied from the Hedonicon, with several exceptions (such as the inclusion of Lucian's Alexander the False Prophet). I am also trying to get permissions to host translations of Philodemus and Diogenes of Oinoanda on the website. So far, it's just the works of Epicurus as contained within Diogenes Laërtius and De Rerum Natura. A number of sites contain Epicurus' works, but not De Rerum Natura, and I've connected them with links.

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    • May 28, 2024 at 11:37 AM
    • #3

    It's looking great, Twentier. You do excellent work.

  • Cassius May 31, 2024 at 4:40 PM

    Moved the thread from forum General Discussion to forum Creating Epicurean Groups and Organizations General Discussion.
  • Eikadistes
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    • June 1, 2024 at 10:01 AM
    • #4

    I never realized that Bailey's collection of fragments were selected from Usener's:

    FRAGMENTA EPICVREA
    BAILEY’S COLLECTION OF FRAGMENTS B. REMAINS ASSIGNED TO CERTAIN BOOKS. I. Concerning Choice and Avoidance. 1. Freedom from trouble in the mind and from pain in…
    twentiers.com

    Edited once, last by Eikadistes (June 1, 2024 at 12:57 PM).

  • Bryan
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    • June 1, 2024 at 2:23 PM
    • #5
    Quote from Twentier

    Bailey's collection of fragments were selected from Usener's

    Accordingly, Bailey also did not include what Usener did not include -- for example most of the remains of Epicurus' On Nature. English scholarship is so based on German scholarship this probably in no small way contributed to the lack of treatment of Epicurus' On Nature that we see in German and in English -- whereas it has advanced in the more independent Italian/French line of scholarship.

  • Julia
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    • June 20, 2024 at 5:45 AM
    • #6

    Eikadistes Congratulations on the new site! I like it a lot – feels like an online Hedonicon, which is excellent, because that is bound to save me 396g on checked luggage. That's right, exactly 396 :) That pleasing number is what my scale says the Hedonicon weighs, and with Twentier's attention to detail, I'm sure he did it on purpose :)

    Edited 2 times, last by Julia (July 11, 2024 at 2:55 AM).

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    • July 11, 2024 at 2:21 AM
    • #7

    I added a number of critical authors to the website, including Cicero, Seneca, Sextus Empiricus, and several works of Plutarch (here is Against Colotes, among others: https://twentiers.com/colotes/)

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    • July 11, 2024 at 1:22 PM
    • #8

    The proverbial spirit has moved me, so I have included critical selections from Athenaeus, Eusebius, and Lactantius that reference Epicurus and his philosophy.

  • Bryan
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    • July 11, 2024 at 4:12 PM
    • #9

    You really have made a beautiful website. It is very well organized, and it is filled only with treasures.

    I really appreciate the more accurately transliterated Greek. You used "Loukianos." I think this is excellent. Calling Loukianos "Lucian" is like calling Lucretius "Loucret." But if people only know Lucretius by "Loucret" do we force the issue? -- or do we just use "Loucret" too? I have been indecisive on this point.


    Does using Epíkouros add another layer of complexity, or does it get us closer to source? The answer must be that it gets us closer (even if the transition is uncomfortable).

    The advice below from book 28 seems close to the point. However, of course, it is about the meanings of words, not accuracy of transliteration.

    Book 28, P.Herc. 1479 fr. 8 col. 5 [Sedley] It is not possible to alter many different kinds of names. It is possible to alter a few of those which entail perception – the one which we previously defined in the non-image-making manner, but which we altered when by some act of empirical reasoning we saw that they were not of this kind.

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    • July 11, 2024 at 4:46 PM
    • #10
    Quote from Bryan

    Does using Epíkouros add another layer of complexity, or does it get us closer to source?

    You're reading my mind, because I go back-and-forth on how I'd like to identify each historical figure. One on hand, the Latinized names of figures (like Athenaeus) are more recognizable, and that recognition can be helpful to students (versus seeing "Athenaios"). At the same time, as with Loukianos, I want to steer students away from pronunciations like Lucian /'luːsiːən/ that have been historically Latinized; but with our source material and access to ancient sources, that seems like an unnecessary step, so I push away from /miːno.'iːsiːəs/ toward /mɛː'nɔɪ.ke.uːs/ for example. In the case of Epíkouros, I go back-and-forth. In each case, I try to provide both options somewhere on the site.

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    • July 11, 2024 at 4:47 PM
    • #11
    Quote from Bryan

    You really have made a beautiful website. It is very well organized, and it is filled only with treasures.

    Thank you for that! :)

    All treasures to share.

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    • July 11, 2024 at 5:02 PM
    • #12

    To me this question is always dependent on the context of who you are talking to and what is your goal in talking to them, and there is plenty of room for alternative approaches customized with that in mind. If our goal is to promote Epicurean philosophy most effectively, its going to take many different approaches.

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    • November 12, 2024 at 11:41 PM
    • #13

    I've published a new translation of the Sententiae Vaticana of early Epicureans.

    As I continue to polish them, I'm moving to the fragments.

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    • November 12, 2024 at 11:48 PM
    • #14

    I should mention, I did the same with the Sayings of the Wise, taken as a whole (and not as individual pronouncements like in Proverbs). I think it provides some context to (for ex.) the latter of these two clauses: "And they will in a time of crisis serve a monarch; and they will thereupon exalt anyone after being corrected", though, that's just my take on it, with the humble resources available to me.

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    • November 13, 2024 at 1:56 AM
    • #15

    Very good Eikadistes !

    Clerical note; The footnotes are out of their running starting at VS45, where footnote 10 is repeated from VS44. Everything after that is one off.

    Good work!

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    • November 14, 2024 at 12:55 PM
    • #16

    Again, congratulations on some very good work.

    As to the comments I made on PD02 in general, I moved them over here:

    Post

    RE: Best Translaton Of PDO2 To Feature At EpicureanFriends?

    I haven't had time to go through these yet but I will. Thanks for the work Eikadistes!

    In the meantime I glanced at the page and here's a general comment:

    2 Death in no way exists for us; for that which has dissolved lacks perception; and that which lacks perception in no way exists for us. [see: Key Doctrine 2]



    Some people are going to argue that what Epicurus is saying here is more either:

    A Death in no way exists for us; for that which has dissolved is imperceptible; and that which is…
    Cassius
    November 13, 2024 at 9:17 AM
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    • December 1, 2024 at 5:31 PM
    • #17

    I've completed translating Bailey's collection of 87 fragments. I've included the Greek (and also went back to the Vatican Sayings to do the same.) If nothing else, these are helpful exercises.

    There are a number of other fragments, not included by Bailey I intend to add.

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    • December 14, 2024 at 5:46 PM
    • #18

    I'm completed translating the Epistle to Menoikeus! I've taken a few more poetic liberties seizing opportunities for phrases like "the Spring of Philosophy" and "the Winter of the Mind". I am still polishing it, and will use this as a base upon which to make further edits.

    My biggest takeaway is this: trying to read Epicurus in Epicurus' own words is a great exercise and tickles the minds in unexpected ways. It is a deeply pleasurable activity.

  • Don
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    • December 14, 2024 at 10:46 PM
    • #19

    Look forward to reading your efforts and seeing your translation decisions.

  • Eikadistes
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    • December 16, 2024 at 11:00 AM
    • #20
    Quote from Don

    Look forward to reading your efforts and seeing your translation decisions.

    I appreciate your review! It's a work in progress, and I imagine I'll continue tweaking it as my understanding of verbal adjective, and the various, aorist tenses expands. :P

    In the meantime, piggy-backing off of Hiram 's initial effort, I've published his (with the help of Google translate's) English translation of the French translation of On Irrational Contempt.

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