Thoughts on and translations of VS41

γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖ [one must] καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λήγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

This sounds something like mindfulness! Do all these things while philosophizing. Note that several of the alternate translations below put philosophize first when the first word in Greek is γελᾶν, the infinitive of γελάω "laugh." So the emphasis is on the laughing first. The translations should really be something like: One must laugh and - at the same time - pursue the love wisdom, administer the rest of one's household affairs,...

41. At one and the same time we must philosophize, laugh, and manage our household and other business, while never ceasing to proclaim the words of true philosophy. http://epicurus.net/en/vatican.html

41. One must philosophize and at the same time laugh and take care of one’s household and use the rest of our personal goods, and never stop proclaiming the utterances of correct philosophy. https://churchofepicurus.wordpress.com/vatican/

VS41. We must laugh and philosophize at the same time and do our household duties and employ our other faculties, and never cease proclaiming the sayings of the true philosophy. https://newepicurean.com/suggested-read…Vatican_Sayings

Quote from Cassius

your literalist interpretations

Are you calling me a fundamentalist??

Metrodori Epicurei Fragmenta collegit scriptoris incerti Epicurei Commentarium moralem, subiecit Alfredus Koerte : Metrodorus, of Lampsacus, d. 277 B.C : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

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Quote

"I wrote down the opinion of Metrodorus, because it is evident that he had most diligently warned the members to give attention to the management of the family affairs. See p. 544. although this statement certainly cannot be attributed to him."

I am *always* open for digging into these translation questions! Thanks for the opportunity.

First, we return to the manuscript:

DigiVatLib

And for ease of comparison (differences in transcription underlined):

Bailey:

Γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖ καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λήγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀρθῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

Alberto Enrique Álvarez:

Γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖν καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λέγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀργῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

You're right! One letter and one word difference. Now, what word is in the manuscript??

Well! Would you look at that! ... ὀργῆς !!! That third letter is *clearly* a gamma γ and not a theta θ, but Bailey et al., of course, knew what was in the scribe's mind when he wrote that. Nope! Unless there is a question of what letter is in a manuscript, I am not amenable to the idea of "correcting" texts if a plausible translation can be made from *what is actually written*!

So, I fully agree with Álvarez's transcription. This just continues to confirm to me that we absolutely HAVE TO go back to the manuscripts when they are available. And I like Álvarez's point about the juxtaposition of laughter and anger. Bailey et al. change the word to ορθης (orthes) "right, correct" (as in ortho-dox) to make it easier on themselves, I think. I'm a little unsure about the use of "maxims" in Álvarez's translation, so I'd like to break the manuscript line apart and dig into the grammar briefly...

...καὶ μηδαμῇ λέγειν "and never, ever (strong negation) to say...

...τὰς .. φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας. "the letting loose philosophical sounds"

ἐκ τῆς ὀργῆς "from (or "done by" or "out of") anger"

The "maxim" of Alvarez comes from φωνας:

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, φων-ή

LSJ has:

III. phrase, saying, “τὴν Σιμωνίδου φ.” Id.Prt. 341b; “ἡ τοῦ Σωκράτους φ.” Plu.2.106b, cf. 330f, etc.; of formulae, “στοιχειώματα καὶ φ.” Epicur.Ep.1p.4U., cf. Sent.Vat.41 (= Metrod. Fr.59); “αἱ σκεπτικαὶ φ.” S.E.P.1.14, cf. Jul.Or.5.162b, etc.

but I think that citation of Sent. Vat. 41 could predicated on the orthes of Bailey et al. But really all the word can mean is voice, cry, sound, etc. It's where we get out English "phone, phono-."

This text translates ἀφιέντας as "overlook":

XX. For Polystratus

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>be saved by this plea, and might obtain our due reward at your hands. And for the sake of other people also you ought to…

www.loebclassics.com

So, I can get the clunky literalish translation:

"One must laugh and seek wisdom and tend to one's home life and use one's other goods; and never, ever let loose speaking philosophical sayings out of anger."

... or something with that idea.

Onenski I'm not sure if you shared Alvarez's work before or not, but (at the risk of repeating):

https://repositorio.uam.es/bitstream/handle/10486/672880/alvarez_alberto_enrique.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

EL GNOMOLOGIUM VATICANUM Y LA FILOSOFÍA DE EPICURO

Dirigida por:

JOSÉ MARÍA ZAMORA CALVO

ALBERTO ENRIQUE ÁLVAREZ

Alberto Enrique Álvarez:

Γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖν καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι καὶ μηδαμῇ λέγειν τὰς ἐκ τῆς ὀργῆς φιλοσοφίας φωνὰς ἀφιέντας.

I'd like to briefly look at the first part of that VS:

Γελᾶν ἅμα δεῖν καὶ φιλοσοφεῖν καὶ οἰκονομεῖν καὶ τοῖς λοιποῖς οἰκειώμασι χρῆσθαι...

Using δεῖν, Álvarez's transcription which uses what the manuscript has: δεῖν with a final nu ν.

Using I find it interesting that there are then parallel infinitives:

δεῖν

φιλοσοφεῖν

οἰκονομεῖν

and λέγειν

Γελᾶν is also the infinitive form of γελάω "to laugh"

δεῖν carries the idea of "it behoves one to, it is necessary to, one must" but not necessarily any moral obligation which is carried but χρή which shows up in here with χρῆσθαι

So...

"At the same time, it behoves one to laugh and 'to love and practice wisdom,' and to tend to one's home life and to make proper use of one's other goods; and to never, ever speak philosophical noises vented out of anger."

Demosthenes actually uses a construction similar to VS41:

Demosthenes, Philippic 2, section 34

ὁρῶ γὰρ ὡς τὰ πόλλ᾽ ἐνίους οὐκ εἰς τοὺς αἰτίους, ἀλλ᾽ εἰς τοὺς ὑπὸ χεῖρα μάλιστα τὴν ὀργὴν ἀφιέντας.

for I observe that people vent their wrath as a rule, not on those who are to blame, but chiefly on those who are within their reach.