1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live As An Epicurean
  4. Practical Applications and Epicurean Lifestyle
  5. Practical Exercises In Applied Epicurean Philosophy
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Dealing with the Feeling of Frustration - a practical method

  • Kalosyni
  • March 8, 2023 at 10:34 AM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    17,229
    Posts
    2,095
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • March 8, 2023 at 10:34 AM
    • #1

    I created a flow chart to illustrate possible ways to deal with the feeling of frustration.

    Wikipedia: "In psychology, frustration is a common emotional response to opposition [or unexpected obstacles to goal fulfillment], related to anger, annoyance, and disappointment. Frustration arises from the perceived resistance to the fulfillment of an individual's will or goal and is likely to increase when a will or goal is denied or blocked." (Wikipedia article).

    Is the following chart helpful? Is there anything which should be added or changed?

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,499
    Posts
    14,030
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • March 8, 2023 at 10:43 AM
    • #2

    What about a column for "Did something undesirable happen which I could have prevented but for some reason did not?"

  • Matteng
    03 - Member
    Points
    438
    Posts
    52
    • March 12, 2023 at 4:36 PM
    • #3

    It would be interesting to compare that with Stoic advice.

    For example, dealing with emotions. That was a core subject in Stoic ehtics/psychology (therapy of the passions).

    Stoics tend to see the happy life as erasing frustrations ((a)pathe).

    What would be the alternative in Epicurus' philosophy?

    What is the difference between the feelings of pleasure/pain and emotions?

    Emotions that cause suffering (pain ? )such as anxiety/obsessive-compulsive disorders should probably be countered as the Stoics or CBT envisage, but perhaps in a milder form?

    In the end, probably the advice would be to learn the most prudent /wise way to deal with emotions. But which one would that be?

    I think Philodemus once wrote about it, right?

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,499
    Posts
    14,030
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • March 12, 2023 at 6:11 PM
    • #4

    Matteng in my view these questions get resolved through a common sense basic observation of all that we find to be desirable, mental or physical, it that way because the feeling of pleasure tells us it is so. There are no bright line categories that apply to everyone because the universe doesn't give us categories -those are in the mind - the universe just gives us the faculty of pleasure and pain by which to evaluate everything.

    It is up to each one of us to decide what level of pain we are willing to accept in return for what amount of pleasure. All of us accept the pains of daily life in order for us to continue to live and experience pleasure.

    The implicit presumption in some arguments that all pain is unacceptable is simply not what Epicurus taught. He said we explicitly choose pain at times in order to avoid more pain or attain greater pleasure.

    It therefore seems to me that every discussion of choices needs to state that emphatically at the beginning.

    Yes you want to minimize pain, but you also want to maximize pleasure, and how you choose to strike that balance has no rules except your own decision as to how to live your life.

  • Kalosyni
    Student of the Kepos
    Points
    17,229
    Posts
    2,095
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    90.9 %
    • March 12, 2023 at 6:11 PM
    • #5
    Quote from Matteng

    Stoics tend to see the happy life as erasing frustrations ((a)pathe).


    What would be the alternative in Epicurus' philosophy?

    Here is the Vatican Saying 21:

    "Nature must be persuaded, not forced. And we will persuade nature by fulfilling the necessary desires, and the natural desires too if they cause no harm, but sharply rejecting the harmful desires."

    For Epicureans it is important to pay attention to needs -- needs of the body and needs for happiness. And to find practical solutions -- by asking "What is in my power to change?"

    And in the Letter to Menoeceus: "...keep in mind that some desires are natural whereas others are groundless; that among the natural desires some are natural and necessary whereas others are merely natural; and that among the necessary desires some are necessary for happiness, some for physical health, and some for life itself."

    So for practical application, from modern psychology:

    Painful emotions and painful feelings are like a warning light that a need of the body or of the soul is not being met, or we are in danger of losing something we believe that we need. The problem being that when we only have one way to meet a need, than we are stuck if we don't get that one way (or can't use that one strategy). So getting unstuck requires us to see other strategies for meeting our needs, as well as making peace with situations in which can't be changed.

    Signs that a need is going unmet, or may go unmet in the future:

    sadness

    frustration

    anger

    fear

    anxiety

    worry

    Signs that a need is being met effectively:

    happy

    enthusiastic

    thankful

    peaceful

    satisfied/content

    Some universal human needs:

    food/water/shelter/clothing

    safety/trust

    competence/skills

    rest/play

    belonging/understanding

    respect/consideration

    autonomy/choice

    etc.

    I haven't yet studied Philodemus, so can't add anything from that.

    Quote from Matteng

    Emotions that cause suffering (pain ? )such as anxiety/obsessive-compulsive disorders should probably be countered as the Stoics or CBT envisage, but perhaps in a milder form?

    OCD is a complex issue and is a separate issue than just anxiety (and different than phobias) -- there is probably a lot about what kinds of modalities of modern psychotherapy work for these issues, but haven't researched.

    In another thread, there was something about CBT having some problems, and could make some conditions worse.

    Quote

    Philosophical concerns with CBT methods

    The methods employed in CBT research have not been the only criticisms; some individuals have called its theory and therapy into question.[225]

    Slife and Williams write that one of the hidden assumptions in CBT is that of determinism, or the absence of free will. They argue that CBT holds that external stimuli from the environment enter the mind, causing different thoughts that cause emotional states: nowhere in CBT theory is agency, or free will, accounted for.[215]

    Another criticism of CBT theory, especially as applied to major depressive disorder (MDD), is that it confounds the symptoms of the disorder with its causes.[218]

    Side effects

    CBT is generally regarded as having very few if any side effects.[226][227] Calls have been made by some for more appraisal of possible side effects of CBT.[228] Many randomized trials of psychological interventions like CBT do not monitor potential harms to the patient.[229] In contrast, randomized trials of pharmacological interventions are much more likely to take adverse effects into consideration.[230]

    A 2017 meta-analysis revealed that adverse events are not common in children receiving CBT and, furthermore, that CBT is associated with fewer dropouts than either placebo or medications.[231] Nevertheless, CBT therapists do sometimes report 'unwanted events' and side effects in their outpatients with "negative wellbeing/distress" being the most frequent.[232]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive…ith_CBT_methods

    Display More
  • Matteng
    03 - Member
    Points
    438
    Posts
    52
    • March 13, 2023 at 5:15 AM
    • #6

    Thanks.

    I think it depends on the circumstances (pain/pleasure) how much if at all the emotions should be controlled/manipulated.

    The Stoics are there extreme to want to eliminate the "passions" as illness. (Which is not to say one cannot learn from them (like Seneca learned from both schools))

    The Epicureans see them more natural I hink.

    Better: Accept the emotions and control the behavior after the emotions prudently (when there is no disease of the soul)

    Found this here:

    Epicureanism: Philodemus on anger (first part) – Epicurus Today

    Philodemus on irrational anger (second part) – Epicurus Today

    Epicurean therapy for anger (last part) – see other two parts below – Epicurus Today

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Who are capable of figuring the problem out 5

      • Like 1
      • Patrikios
      • June 5, 2025 at 4:25 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Patrikios
      • June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    2. Replies
      5
      Views
      297
      5
    3. Patrikios

      June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    1. What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity? 31

      • Like 5
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 2, 2025 at 3:35 PM
      • General Discussion
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    2. Replies
      31
      Views
      909
      31
    3. Don

      June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    1. Porphyry - Letter to Marcella -"Vain Is the Word of the Philosopher..." 17

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • June 12, 2023 at 11:34 AM
      • Usener Collection
      • Cassius
      • June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    2. Replies
      17
      Views
      5.8k
      17
    3. Bryan

      June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    1. Daily life of ancient Epicureans / 21st Century Epicureans 38

      • Like 3
      • Robert
      • May 21, 2025 at 8:23 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Robert
      • May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    2. Replies
      38
      Views
      2.8k
      38
    3. Pacatus

      May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    1. Emily Austin's "LIving For Pleasure" Wins Award. (H/T to Lowri for finding this!)

      • Like 4
      • Cassius
      • May 28, 2025 at 10:57 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 28, 2025 at 10:57 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      250

Latest Posts

  • Tsouna's On Choices and Avoidances

    Robert June 8, 2025 at 1:37 AM
  • Episode 285 - Not Yet Recorded - Cicero Attacks Epicurus' PD04 And Says Virtue And Honor Is the Way To Overcome Bodily Pain

    Cassius June 7, 2025 at 3:12 PM
  • Updated Thoughts on the Question of "Peace and Safety" in the Works of Norman Dewitt

    Joshua June 7, 2025 at 2:02 PM
  • Who are capable of figuring the problem out

    Patrikios June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    Don June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
  • Sunday, June 15 - Topic: The Letter of Cosma Raimondi

    Cassius June 6, 2025 at 1:46 PM
  • Welcome Balin!

    sanantoniogarden June 6, 2025 at 1:08 PM
  • Sunday, June 8, 2025 - Discussion Topic - "Practice" In Relation To Pain, Pleasure, and Happiness

    Cassius June 6, 2025 at 9:26 AM
  • What if Kyriai Doxai was NOT a list?

    Don June 5, 2025 at 7:12 AM
  • EpicureanFriends WIKI 2025 - Upgrades, Revisions, Planning

    Cassius June 4, 2025 at 2:23 PM

Similar Threads

  • Epicurean Friends Newsletter - March 2019

    • Cassius
    • February 25, 2019 at 3:41 PM
    • Greetings For Twentieth And Other Events

Tags

  • frustration

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design