1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Epicurean Texts
  4. "Unsolved Mysteries" of Epicurean History
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Where Is Epicurus In The "School of Athens"?

  • Cassius
  • March 11, 2017 at 6:27 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,876
    Posts
    14,085
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 21, 2021 at 4:43 PM
    • #121

    What we could and should collaborate on, however, is a script for Elli to read in presenting the issues. I am up for collaborating on that. Elli have you got an initial script - your paper perhaps - that we could post somewhere (google docs) and make comments / suggestions on ? (such as suggesting the opening history of the mural and citations on each character)?

    We could frame it and make it sound like an "Unsolved Mysteries" TV show.

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,876
    Posts
    14,085
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 22, 2021 at 12:19 PM
    • #122

    As is everything else on the "Epicurus College" website, this is little more than a dream at this point, but I think it's a good goal:

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,876
    Posts
    14,085
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 23, 2021 at 2:58 PM
    • #123

    This thread is gathering such a life of its own that I am going to set up a separate forum for it. That will allow discussion to be separated out into distinct threads on Raphael, Vatican history relating to the mural, the particular portrayals of figures, etc. I moved it to "Places of Significance" but if anyone wants to suggest a better location let me know.

  • Cassius May 23, 2021 at 2:58 PM

    Moved the thread from forum General Discussion to forum The "School of Athens" - By Raphael - Where Is Epicurus?.
  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,876
    Posts
    14,085
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 23, 2021 at 3:18 PM
    • #124

    I would expect that most discussion will continue to take place in this thread and I am not specifically encouraging new posts in the new threads. However it's already almost impossible to read through this thread given its length, so I'm giving the option to future posters to write their new comments on particular figures where they may more easily be found.

  • Titus
    03 - Member
    Points
    1,085
    Posts
    136
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • November 6, 2021 at 10:05 AM
    • #125

    Let's consider professor Erler's arguments as he points out in his book"Epicurus: An introduction to his practical ethics and politics".

    He identifies the man wearing the wreath of ivy as Epicurus. He refers to the letter to Menoeceus. The ivy man is surrounded by four people of every age. This shall represent Epicurus' call for philosophing being a young guy as well as being an old men.

    He also argues that Epicurus is characterized by words by Sidonius Apollinaris:

    "You do not burn with envy at the thought of those paintings all over the gymnasia of the Areopagus and in the prytanea showing Speusippus with his head bowed forward, Aratus with his head bent back, Epicurus with unwrinkled skin, Diogenes with long beard, Socrates with trailing hair, Aristotle with out-thrust arm."

    Finally, Erler refers to Horace. Erler writes "the fat and sleek man with good keeping."

    Personally, I'd also add the fact that one of the guys is lying on the shoulder of the suggested Epicurus, searching for philosophy as help and guidance.

  • Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,876
    Posts
    14,085
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • November 6, 2021 at 10:30 AM
    • #126
    Quote from Titus

    He also argues that Epicurus is characterized by words by Sidonius Apollinaris:


    "You do not burn with envy at the thought of those paintings all over the gymnasia of the Areopagus and in the prytanea showing Speusippus with his head bowed forward, Aratus with his head bent back, Epicurus with unwrinkled skin, Diogenes with long beard, Socrates with trailing hair, Aristotle with out-thrust arm."

    That's an interesting quote I don't think I have focused on before. Do those observations also carry over beyond Socrates and Aristotle also to Speusippus and Aratus? I will have to look up what is available on that. I suppose it could be argued that the figure in orange does not appear to have wrinkled skin either.

    If someone were looking for "fat and sleek...." then the wreathed figure does fit that description, but would that not refer to "a hog in Epicurus' herd" rather than to Epicurus himself?

  • Titus
    03 - Member
    Points
    1,085
    Posts
    136
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • November 6, 2021 at 11:22 AM
    • #127
    Quote from Cassius

    If someone were looking for "fat and sleek...." then the wreathed figure does fit that description, but would that not refer to "a hog in Epicurus' herd" rather than to Epicurus himself?

    I was also irritated by professor Erler's words but he writes as follows: " 'Epicurus with unwrinkled skin': This reminds us of one of Horace's famous dictums about Epicurus, the fat and sleek man with good keeping." (He refers to "Hor. Epist. 1.4.15." . Perhaps this quotation might be clarifying.)

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,003
    Posts
    5,568
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • November 6, 2021 at 11:28 AM
    • #128
    3.1.) Horace Epistles 1.4
    Lawrence Alma-Tadema “Tibullus at Delia’s” Albi, nostrorum sermonum candide iudex,   quid nunc te dicam facere in regione Pedana?      &nbs…
    oberlinclassics.com
  • Titus
    03 - Member
    Points
    1,085
    Posts
    136
    Quizzes
    2
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • November 6, 2021 at 11:34 AM
    • #129

    I see, Erler refers to the same phrase we are already talking about.

  • Cassius June 23, 2024 at 1:26 PM

    Moved the thread from forum The "School of Athens" - By Raphael (1509 ce) - Where Is Epicurus? to forum "Unsolved Mysteries" of Epicurean Philosophy.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. The Religion of Nature - as supported by Lucretius' De Rerum Natura 4

      • Thanks 1
      • Kalosyni
      • June 12, 2025 at 12:03 PM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Kalosyni
      • June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      493
      4
    3. Godfrey

      June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    1. New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

      • Thanks 2
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      814
    1. Does The Wise Man Groan and Cry Out When On The Rack / Under Torture / In Extreme Pain? 19

      • Cassius
      • October 28, 2019 at 9:06 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    2. Replies
      19
      Views
      1.6k
      19
    3. Cassius

      June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    1. Best Lucretius translation? 9

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 8:40 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    2. Replies
      9
      Views
      392
      9
    3. Cassius

      June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    1. New Translation of Epicurus' Works 1

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 3:50 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      354
      1
    3. Cassius

      June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM

Latest Posts

  • Is Western Civilization & Technology an Impediment to Getting Certain Human Needs Met?

    Kalosyni June 25, 2025 at 10:14 AM
  • Prolepsis of the gods

    Cassius June 25, 2025 at 9:51 AM
  • What amount of effort should be put into pursuing pleasure or removing pain?

    Kalosyni June 25, 2025 at 9:30 AM
  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    Cassius June 25, 2025 at 4:06 AM
  • Episode 287 - TD17 - The Fear of Pain Is Overrated, But Cicero and Epicurus Disagree As To Why.

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 7:20 PM
  • Sunday Zoom (Sun, Jun 1st 2025, 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm)

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 11:53 AM
  • General Suggestion Thread for the FAQ

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 7:26 AM
  • Forum Restructuring & Refiling of Threads - General Discussion Renamed to Uncategoried Discussion

    Cassius June 23, 2025 at 7:05 PM
  • Venus and Mars - "Good" vs. "Evil"?

    Cassius June 23, 2025 at 3:27 PM
  • “A small replica of himself”

    Rolf June 23, 2025 at 8:23 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design