Simplifying the Epicurean Concepts of Pleasure

    The one comment I would make on this is directed to the last block:

    I personally find the meaning of "empty" in English in this context to be unclear, and to require explanation. And I specifically believe that it requires explanation because to immediately equate "empty" with "incorrect" does not explain what the standard of correct or incorrect is. And the biggest problem I think in evaluating power, wealth, status, etc is that a significant number of people argue that those things are "bad in themselves" and thus "always empty."

    I don't think that is correct at all. The power to defend yourself, enough money to live reasonably, and enough status to be well-regarded by your friends are perfectly proper Epicurean goals. So happiness does depend on some amount of power, wealth, and status. It is not reasonable to expect to be helpless, penniless, and hated by all your neighbors and still live a happy life. Extremely rare exceptions to that generalization might exist but the fact that they are extremely rare establishes the conclusion as a general good rule to follow.

    The most authoritative text I can find on this is the statement of Torquatus:

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    §45

    Nothing could be more useful or more conducive to well-being than Epicurus's doctrine as to the different classes of the desires. One kind he classified as both natural and necessary, a second as natural without being necessary, and a third as neither natural nor necessary; the principle of classification being that the necessary desires are gratified with little trouble or expense; the natural desires also require but little, since nature's own riches, which suffice to content her, are both easily procured and limited in amount; but for the imaginary desires no bound or limit can be discovered.

    So the point is not that the pursuit of some amount of wealth, fame, and power is in itself "incorrect" but that if you seek them to an unlimited agree then there is no way to achieve your goal. That's because you have not identified the "limit" with which you will be satisfied. You have by definition sentenced yourself to frustration if you pursue anything in unlimited amount because you are a limited being and you simply cannot obtain anything in unlimited amount.

    Quote from Cassius

    And the biggest problem I think in evaluating power, wealth, status, etc is that a significant number of people argue that those things are "bad in themselves" and thus "always empty."

    I don't think that is correct at all. The power to defend yourself, enough money to live reasonably, and enough status to be well-regarded by your friends are perfectly proper Epicurean goals. So happiness does depend on some amount of power, wealth, and status. It is not reasonable to expect to be helpless, penniless, and hated by all your neighbors and still live a happy life. Extremely rare exceptions to that generalization might exist but the fact that they are extremely rare establishes the conclusion as a general good rule to follow.

    Cassius I think you may be picking up on how the words "power", "wealth", and "status" are too vague.

    It would be more correct for me to say (and put into modern times):

    Groundless and incorrect opinions are when people believe that well-being and a pleasurable life require taking a political career or a corporate CEO position, a large amount of assets and great amount of monetary funds, a wardrobe filled with designer clothes or garage of top-notch sports cars, or receiving great awards such as the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, Guinness Book of Records, or a Gold Star in Hollywood.

    Also, the emphasis is on when you don't have it, not if you've already acheived any of these. And, if you have already acheived any of these, then you'll likely know how they come with great struggles, competition, and a loss of personal freedoms (paparazzi chasing you, and/or "contracts" with the people who helped you get to where you are and that you are unable to extricate yourself from).