Welcome AlteFrau!

Welcome AlteFrau

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Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.

This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards and associated Terms of Use. Please be sure to read that document to understand our ground rules.

Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from most other philosophies, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit of truth and happy living through pleasure as explained in the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

One way you can be assured of your time here will be productive is to tell us a little about yourself and your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you already have.

You can also check out our Getting Started page for ideas on how to use this website.

We have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

"Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

"On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

"Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

"The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

Welcome to the forum!

AlteFrau tells us:

This is to confirm my request for a new account.

I have always been interested in religion and philo. I am irreligious, so philo has been my go-to when wondering how to find meaning. Emotionally I am Schopenhauerian, but I have also read and re-read and re-read The Meditations and Epictetus. When I read Cicero's arguments against Epicureanism , however, I thought, Hold on, this sounds really good! Rather than strive (and fail again and again) toward The Good, why not move away from The Bad? So I decided to read everything I could about E and decided to live my life accordingly as much as possible. I don't live in a garden with friends, but I have attempted to align myself with E ideals. Last year my father died, and it was horrible. I moved into his little apartment for his last month while he was in hospice. We did not always have a good relationship. I was away from my husband and my Pomeranian, who was very old and sick at the time, and I cried a lot. But what got me through it was NOT being stoic and thinking about filial piety or being brave, but making the decision to move (emotionally) away from resentment and away from anger. My sister is a born-again xian and she had a harder time with this than I did because our dad was not a xian and she is now worried about his soul. But death is nothing, isn't it?

Anyway, that's my background with this.

Welcome AlteFrau! Thank you for the information and condolences on your father.

We've had some discussions on the forum recently that nudge me in the direction of letting you know that there are far more Nietzschean outlooks here than Schopenharuen, but that can wait. If you're familiar with Epicurus mainly because of his reputation as a healer of pain, that's understandable, especially given your recent events.

Over time I hope we can nudge you to the view that there are two sides of this coin, and that focusing on pleasure as the ultimate goal is sounder and more effective than focusing on relief from pain. But there is a time and a place for everything, and there are times when relief from pain is the understandable priority.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for taking an interest in it.

AlteFrau I thought you might be interested in this quote which one of our participants brought to our attention just this week as to the way Epicurus himself dealt with pain:

Quote from Bryan

Yes that one was from Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, 9.41

Epicurus says that "in my illness, my conversations were not about the feelings of my little body, nor was I chatting about such things [i.e., the illness] to those who visited. But, while studying nature, I continued with these topics, even while in that very state, [studying] how the mind – although partaking in such movements [painfully occurring] within my little bit of flesh – remains undisturbed, while preserving its own good."