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An Observation On Using Opposing Philosophers To Argue Epicurean Positions

  • Cassius
  • May 23, 2026 at 10:51 AM

New Graphics: Are You On Team Epicurus? | Comparison Chart: Epicurus vs. Other Philosophies | Chart Of Key Epicurean Quotations | Accelerating Study Of Canonics Through Philodemus' "On Methods Of Inference" | Note to all users: If you have a problem posting in any forum, please message Cassius  

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    • May 23, 2026 at 10:51 AM
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    Here's something that just occurred to me. I may be forgetting obvious examples so that's why I am posting - to see if there are counterexamples:

    When I think about writers in the ancient world, I see non-Epicureans - Seneca is maybe the best example, as well as potentially Marcus Aurelius and certain Christian church fathers - regularly citing aspects of Epicurus approvingly and working to enlist Epicurus to support their own ideas.

    In contrast, among the authentic Epicurean advocates of the ancient world, I can think of very few - and at the moment no - examples of the Epicureans approvingly citing their own philosophical opponents. Now perhaps in physics citations to Democritus could be argued as a counter-example, but even there the Epicureans appear to have been very clear that Democritus was praiseworthy to a limited extent on his atomism, but not worthy of citation or emulation on much else. And I don't recall the Epicureans citing Socrates or Plato in an approving way. It would be more logical to look for approving citations to Aristotle, but even those seem to be few if any in the works that survive.

    To the extent this observation holds up I would say there is probably more too this than just accident, and it's something to consider learning from. In the modern world, we have the Stoics regularly working to enlist Epicurus in support of their ideas of detachment and ascetic / minimalist living. Even worse, we have people who categorize their writing as Epicurean but who arguably spend as much or more time citing and promoting arguments from other intellectual traditions that are at root hostile to Epicurus.

    I do think the ancient texts clearly show that the Epicureans regularly cited arguments from other schools to oppose them. But I don't see much to support the view that the Epicurean leaders thought it to be a good idea to "name-drop" opposing philosophers in support of their own Epicurean arguments, especially in ethics.

    In fact I know that as Joshua has pointed out many times in the podcast, it was specifically a point of contention between Torquatus and Cicero that the Stoics and Platonists seemed to love nothing more than citing the words and deeds of "great men of the past" to establish their ethical preferences.

    So while the opponents of Epicurus - both in the past and today - seemingly love to enlist Epicurean arguments in support of their own ethical views, is it accurate to observe that the authentic Epicureans seem to have thought that citing opponents, especially in ethics, was not generally a good idea?

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