Welcome Josh!

Welcome Josh!

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Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.

This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.

Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.

In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

"Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

"On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

"Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

"The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

Welcome to the forum!

That's a great first post and no you need not explain anything more at this point!

We have a number of German-speakers / Germans here so you should find yourself at home!

Josh I would recommend first "Living for Pleasure" and DeWitt's Epicurus and His Philosophy as much better general introductions.

In addition Josh, we have this entry in our FAQ on the topic of a reading list:

Can You Suggest A Reading List For New Students of Epicurus? - Epicureanfriends.com

www.epicureanfriends.com

Quote from Josh

I will look around for Cassius’ stuff!

Now THAT is not likely to be a good idea! The early material I put together as free epubs to help bring some material together has been superceded by what you're seeing now here at EpicureanFriends, and especially our work in the Lucretius Today podcast. I haven't tried to "withdraw" the old epubs because I am afraid that's largely impossible to do, but my thinking about Epicurus has evolved a lot over the years.

My advice to anyone getting started with Epicurus is 2024 is to read the DeWitt and the Austin books and then get involved in reading the forum and listening to the podcast and ask questions and discuss things here at the forum - in other words get involved in researching and writing yourself and compare notes all along the way with others who are on the same track.

You ultimately have to go through Diogenes Laertius Book 10 and Lucretius and Diogenes of Oenoanda for yourself, but 99% of normal non-specialist people need the kind of framework that "Epicurus and His Philosophy" and "Living For Pleasure" will give you to start to put things in order in your own mind.

For example, you wrote above:

Quote from Josh

I am mostly interested in the topic of living a happy life, and how that is our goal, not by buying more and more stuff, but with Ataraxia.

I predict that if you stick with the study of Epicurus long enough, you will come to express that considerably differently. What you've stated is the dominant 'orthodox' view of Epicurus, but I think you'll come to conclude eventually that the issue of "buying more and more stuff" is only a relatively minor facet of the big picture, and that "pleasure" is a much better word for the ultimate goal than is "ataraxia."

And what I am saying about getting involved either here or somewhere else to talk and write about these things is that the deeper you get into the controversies, the more you see how helpful it is to talk about the importance of these issues, and how import it is to understand - and to be able to express to others - that there's a lot going on underneath the surface.

Just an idle thought here but if I think about the take of people like Usener and Nietzsche and many other German interest over the years, it would be tempting to (probably) overgeneralize and say that something about Epicurus rings more true in German / Continental minds that it does in the more Stoic British minds.

So it is possible that we ought to devote some attention to highlighting the best German language resources and that would help us get access to German commentary on Epicurus that we don't currently have access to.

It might well be that if the English had just stuck with their affinity for Stoicism rather than monopolizing the commentary on Epicurus we would all be better off!

It's probably no coincidence that the major book treatments we are recommending are American and Canadian rather that British. :-). I could easily imagine that German book treatments are superior, but about the only German I know is "Nein!"