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  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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Welcome SanAntonioGarden!

  • Cassius
  • January 20, 2024 at 7:20 PM
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    • January 20, 2024 at 7:20 PM
    • #1

    Welcome sanantoniogarden

    There is one last step to complete your registration:

    All new registrants must post a response to this message here in this welcome thread (we do this in order to minimize spam registrations).

    You must post your response within 72 hours, or your account will be subject to deletion.

    Please say "Hello" by introducing yourself, tell us what prompted your interest in Epicureanism and which particular aspects of Epicureanism most interest you, and/or post a question.

    This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.

    Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.

    All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

    One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.

    In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

    "Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

    The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

    "On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

    "Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

    The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

    Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

    Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

    The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

    A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

    Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

    Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

    "The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

    It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

    And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

    (If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

    Welcome to the forum!

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    • January 21, 2024 at 1:30 PM
    • #2

    Hello all! Thanks for accepting me. I've had a philosophical interest pretty much my whole life. The Hellenistic schools really caught my attention and I began to study these particular schools more thoroughly. Epicureanism, despite its difficulties, has had an actual impact on my approach to life. I've visited this site before to read articles and have listened to a number of episodes of the podcast. This year I have promised myself to take my Epicurean beliefs more seriously. So I'm here to deepen my understanding of classical Epicureanism and hope to learn from more experienced guides about the more subtle aspects of the ethics.

    Be safe.

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    • January 21, 2024 at 1:31 PM
    • #3

    Glad to have you Sanantoniogarden and thanks for replying to your welcome post!

  • Don
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    • January 21, 2024 at 1:58 PM
    • #4

    Welcome aboard, sanantoniogarden !! It's good that you've perused material presented here before. That should give you a good idea of where we're coming from.

    I am curious when you mentioned:

    Quote from sanantoniogarden

    Epicureanism, despite its difficulties...

    I would be interested to hear what you see as difficulties. I would bet that some of us have had the same thoughts, and it sounds like it might be a good discussion thread :)

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    • January 21, 2024 at 4:41 PM
    • #5

    I suppose one of the main difficulties initially, is how we can reconcile Epicurus' physics with modern physics? How far are we able to poeticize the teachings to fit in with our modern science? I'm aware how prescient Epicurus' views were and would like the opinion of more classical minded epicureans.

    Be safe.

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    Cassius
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    • January 21, 2024 at 5:07 PM
    • #6

    What part of modern physics do you have in mind as a problem? In general, the changes in understanding of how nature works do not change the conclusion that nature has no gods over her, or that there is no life after death, or that there are no absolute ideal forms to which we need to conform our conduct.

  • Don
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    • January 21, 2024 at 7:01 PM
    • #7
    Quote from sanantoniogarden

    I suppose one of the main difficulties initially, is how we can reconcile Epicurus' physics with modern physics?

    My take has been to concentrate on what Epicurus's big takeaway was in his physics: We live in a material universe, governed by natural, physical laws with no supernatural or divine intervention. The rest are details. Prescient details for the most part, but I'm not worried by the details. Plus, ancient Greek atoms (ΑΤΟΜΟΙ) are not the atoms of modern physics, the name not withstanding. But Epicurus did get the general idea of small particles coming together to make a whole different than their individual characteristics. I do not, in any way, feel an obligation to adhere to the pre-scientific physics of 2,300 years ago to think of myself as an Epicurean. That said, I do think Epicurus was on the right track at least on a lot of his physics.

    I hope that helps.

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    sanantoniogarden
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    • January 21, 2024 at 8:18 PM
    • #8

    Thank you both for the responses. Cassius, I agree with your point that "the changes in understanding of how nature works do not change the conclusion..." I suppose Don articulated my difficulty better than I was able to. I guess I felt that in order to be a consistent Epicurean, I would have to make sense of his physics in light of modern understandings. "I do not, in any way, feel an obligation to adhere to the pre-scientific physics of 2,300 years ago to think of myself as an Epicurean..." This was the approach I've been taking and just wanted to see where more experienced Epicureans stood on the issue 8)

    Be safe.

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    Cassius
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    • January 21, 2024 at 10:35 PM
    • #9

    This FAQ answer has some age on it and needs to be improved, but we get this question all the time and prepared this some time ago:


    To What Extent, If Any, Does Modern Physics Invalidate Epicurean Philosophy? - Epicureanfriends.com
    www.epicureanfriends.com
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    sanantoniogarden
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    • January 21, 2024 at 11:25 PM
    • #10

    Thanks for the link!

    Be safe.

  • Eikadistes
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    • January 21, 2024 at 11:56 PM
    • #11
    Quote from sanantoniogarden

    I suppose one of the main difficulties initially, is how we can reconcile Epicurus' physics with modern physics? How far are we able to poeticize the teachings to fit in with our modern science? I'm aware how prescient Epicurus' views were and would like the opinion of more classical minded epicureans.

    One principle of the teaching of Epicurus is the notion of coherence between multiple explanations. So, regardless of the true identity of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, regardless of the physics that occurs behind an event horizon or within a singularity ... whatever we determine to be the case after this period of evaluation and experimentation, we know that the results will still have to be coherent with the observed behavior of particles.

    Ultimately, the concepts that got us to the moon are the same concepts that corresponds with Epicurean atomism. Epicurean physics does not conflict with contemporary physics as much as it has gaps and limitations. For example, Epicurus did not conceptualize the idea of spacetime, but there is nothing in his teachings that directly contradict spacetime. It is an extension, rather than a revision, as is the case with other philosophies.

  • Martin
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    • January 22, 2024 at 1:14 AM
    • #12

    Welcome Sanantoniogarden!

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