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Updated TimeTable of the Epicurean World

  • Cassius
  • November 4, 2023 at 3:45 PM
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    • November 4, 2023 at 3:45 PM
    • #1

    Based on work Don and Nate have done previously I'd like to continue to work on an easy-to-read table to help people orient to major events in the Epicurean world. The Lexicon section of the forum has been updated to add the following table which can be edited collaboratively. Please comment if you have suggestions - obviously lots more work needed on this. As it continues to come together the table will be easier to cut and paste and use elsewhere.

    Timetable Of The Epicurean World - Epicureanfriends.com
    www.epicureanfriends.com
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    • November 4, 2023 at 10:40 PM
    • #2

    I think in the end we'll convert the format to something more like this:

    But it will be a lot easier to collaborate over time and use the lexicon entry linked above as the place where we grow the chart and develop the data for the final version.

  • Don
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    • November 4, 2023 at 10:44 PM
    • #3

    For ease of reference:

    https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/user/311-don/#wall/comment425

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    • November 5, 2023 at 5:49 AM
    • #4

    A Zoomable copy of that is pretty much exactly what we need. Did you do that?

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    • November 5, 2023 at 5:57 AM
    • #5

    Couldn't sleep!

    The .png file on my computer is 947 kb but it compresses to 236 kb when I upload it. I can send you the file if you have a way to upload it uncompressed.

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    • November 5, 2023 at 7:46 AM
    • #6

    Joshua did you assemble it with a program that can output in SVG format? (That's infinitely zoomable).

    Yours is so good it probably shows we need a dedicated timeline generator.

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    • November 5, 2023 at 8:45 AM
    • #7

    In case what Joshua used to generate that excellent timeline doesn't do SVG, I see that the free program I used to generate the SVG "navigation map" here at the forum -- draw.io -- does do timelines. Here are are references to how to do that:

    Proper Way to Use Draw.io in Timeline Chart Making

    Blog - Draw timelines and roadmaps in draw.io


    More free alternatives:

    Create timelines with open-source tools | School of Data - Evidence is Power


    An interesting example: https://timeline.knightlab.com/examples/user-interface/index.html

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    • November 5, 2023 at 12:04 PM
    • #8

    I'm wondering if Eikadistes and Don can help clear up the succession of scholarchs for me. I was going by the link to the table posted by Cassius in #1, but then I found this list by Nate at Society of Epicurus and some of the dates don't match.

    Protrarchus isn't mentioned at all in the table Cassius linked to, but does appear in SoFE list. The dates for Apollodorus are completely conflicting.

    Nate, should I go with the list you posted at SoFE? It looks more complete.

  • Don
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    • November 5, 2023 at 12:10 PM
    • #9

    Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, BOOK X, EPICURUS (341-271 B.C.)

    Next came Polyaenus,37 son of Athenodorus, a citizen of Lampsacus, a just and kindly man, as Philodemus and his pupils affirm. Next came Epicurus's successor Hermarchus, son of Agemortus, a citizen of Mitylene, the son of a poor man and at the outset a student of rhetoric.

    All these were distinguished, and with them

    Polystratus, the successor of Hermarchus

    he was succeeded by Dionysius

    he by Basilides.

    Apollodorus, known as the tyrant of the garden, who wrote over four hundred books, is also famous ;

    (and the two Ptolemaei of Alexandria, the one black and the other white ; I'm assuming these were no scholarchs!)

    and Zeno39 of Sidon, the pupil of Apollodorus, a voluminous author ; [26] and Demetrius,40 who was called the Laconian ; and Diogenes of Tarsus, who compiled the select lectures ; and Orion, and others whom the genuine Epicureans call Sophists.

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    • November 5, 2023 at 12:10 PM
    • #10

    Epicurean Scholarchs - Epicurus Wiki

    I see also this list, which cites a scholar named T. Dorandi as having developed the authoritative list.

  • Don
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    • November 5, 2023 at 12:32 PM
    • #11
    Quote from Joshua

    https://wiki.epicurism.info/Epicurean_Scholarchs/

    I see also this list, which cites a scholar named T. Dorandi as having developed the authoritative list.

    That list appears to be the most comprehensive.

    I found Dorandi's book on Google Books, and p.75 has the scholarchs... but that page isn't part of the preview! Table of contents: "4. Successione degli scolarchi"

  • Don
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    • November 5, 2023 at 1:35 PM
    • #12

    Wasn't there a scholarch with a Roman name? Source amnesia on that one.

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    • November 5, 2023 at 1:38 PM
    • #13

    There are later figures, but the citation is usually something like "2nd Century" or "c. 250 AD". Too many different kinds of data make it difficult to plot well.

    I suppose I should include Plotina's intervention on behalf of the school as an event.

  • Don
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    • November 5, 2023 at 1:53 PM
    • #14
    Early AD 121 – Plotina writes to Hadrian on behalf of the Epicurean school in Athens (#Hadrian1900) FOLLOWING HADRIAN
    In the early year of AD 121, Pompeia Plotina, the greatly respected widow of the emperor Trajan, sent Hadrian a letter asking him to help the Epicurean school…
    followinghadrian.com

    Popillius Theotimus

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    • November 5, 2023 at 2:13 PM
    • #15


    Link to main timeline; https://time.graphics/line/852902

    This will be regarded as the final version.

    Edit; the main repository will be in the forum Gallery at this link.

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    • November 5, 2023 at 4:00 PM
    • #16

    That's outstanding Joshua.

    Also for future reference, you indicated this morning that you found a better "keyword" to use in searching for something like this better than "timeline." Do you recall what that was?

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    • November 5, 2023 at 4:03 PM
    • #17

    For ease of reference added to the "Special Forum Resources" link on the front page of the forum. That link takes you here:

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    • November 5, 2023 at 4:25 PM
    • #18

    Thank You!

    Quote from Cassius

    Also for future reference, you indicated this morning that you found a better "keyword" to use in searching for something like this better than "timeline." Do you recall what that was?

    Well, that's the trouble; there is the Gantt Chart which is infuriatingly close to what we need, and may actually be helpful in feeding a growing table of data into a chart maker. But it has it's downsides. For one thing, the resulting chart will almost always be longer vertically than horizontally, which means a pretty massive file for the amount of data presented.

    Also, every one I've seen has the labels in a column on the left rather in the chart itself.

    I just don't know how to search for this;

    File:Timeline of Indian history.jpg - Wikimedia Commons
    commons.wikimedia.org

    without finding a lot of this:

    Economy of the United States - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org
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    • November 5, 2023 at 6:00 PM
    • #19
    Quote from Joshua

    Link to main timeline; https://time.graphics/line/852902

    Thank you Joshua It looks brilliant.


    Quote from Cassius

    Please comment if you have suggestions

    Cassius I don't see these people on any of the lists. I think these can be added to the table:

    Leonteus of Lampsacus

    Leonteus of Lampsacus - Wikipedia

    Demetrius of Laconia

    Demetrius Lacon - Wikipedia

    Philonides of Laodicea

    Philonides of Laodicea - Wikipedia

  • Don
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    • November 5, 2023 at 10:09 PM
    • #20

    I'm not sure if this has been cited, but here's Epicurus's entry in the the Suda:

    https://www.cs.uky.edu/~raphael/sol/sol-entries/epsilon/2404

    The most pertinent section for the purposes of the timeline include:

    His school continued until the first Caesar, for 227 years. In these [years] there were 14 successors.

    Now, we now the Epicurean school lasted longer than "the first Caesar" because Popillius Theotimus was in charge of the Garden in 121 CE when Trajan was emperor.

    But it appears the Suda is saying there were 14 "successors" to Epicurus between Epicurus's death and "the first Caesar." It looks like we still have the names of 10 of them.

    The Suda was composed/compiled in the 900s CE.

    Of interest, too, in the online Suda is : Translated by: Marcelo Boeri on 22 October 2003@15:29:13.

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