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VS16 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 manuscript

  • Don
  • July 8, 2023 at 9:09 PM
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  • Don
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    • July 8, 2023 at 9:09 PM
    • #1

    DigiVatLib

    402r

    VS16 is the last saying on folio 402r

    Usual transcription is:

    No one who sees what is bad chooses it willingly; instead he is lured into seeing it as good compared to what is even worse, and thus he is trapped.

    Οὐδεὶς βλέπων τὸ κακὸν αἱρεῖται αὐτό, ἀλλὰ δελεασθεὶς ὡς ἀγαθῷ πρὸς τὸ μεῖζον αὐτοῦ κακὸν ἐθηρεύθη.

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    • July 8, 2023 at 11:09 PM
    • #2

    This seems to be reflected in a way in what Torquatus said in Book One:

    "Surely no one recoils from or dislikes or avoids pleasure in itself because it is pleasure, but because great pains come upon those who do not know how to follow pleasure rationally.

    Nor again is there any one who loves or pursues or wishes to win pain on its own account, merely because it is pain, but rather because circumstances sometimes occur which compel him to seek some great pleasure at the cost of exertion and pain. To come down to petty details, who among us ever undertakes any toilsome bodily exercise, except in the hope of gaining some advantage from it? Who again would have any right to reproach either a man who desires to be surrounded by pleasure unaccompanied by any annoyance, or another man who shrinks from any pain which is not productive of pleasure?"

  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:08 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “VS16 Source in Vat.gr.1950 manuscript” to “VS16 - Source in Vat.gr.1950 manuscript”.
  • Cassius July 5, 2025 at 11:08 AM

    Moved the thread from forum VS 16 - No one when he sees evil deliberately chooses it... to forum Epicurus - The "Vatican List" of Sayings.
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    • November 10, 2025 at 11:55 AM
    • #3

    VS 16: "No one who sees what is bad chooses it willingly; instead he is lured into seeing it as good compared to what is even worse, and thus he is trapped."

    Some thoughts on this...

    Reasoning further on this to get a bigger picture on this: the calculation with regard to time is needed: short term outcomes, medium term outcomes, and long term outcomes. And also missing is not having properly reasoned through all possible outcomes and the likelihood of those outcomes coming to pass.

    Also, this is true if one is willing to gamble that something unwanted won't happen as a consequence...but then over time not knowing if bad consequences will result is greatly disturbing/troubling and also tends to snowball into even more gambling with one's future.

    A simple example: choosing to lie instead of telling the truth, and then forever having to lie to cover up the first lie...ends up being exhausting and then eventually either the truth is found out or the person forgets to keep lying to cover up their first lie...which results in further problems (others no longer trust that person)...etc.

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