1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live As An Epicurean
  4. Dealing With Death, Dying, And Old Age
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Did Epicurus Commit Suicide Due To His Disease? (Merger of Two Threads On When Voluntary Death Makes Sense)

  • Don
  • December 7, 2022 at 7:14 AM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 4:17 PM
    • #81

    I don't know that we've previously discussed this article by Maria Bitsori:

    Epicurus' death
    The aim is to present how an eminent philosopher perceived, reported and faced his progressing and ultimately fatal uropathy, 23 centuries ago. All available…
    www.academia.edu

    It gets close to the issue but as I read through it doesn't really address the argument at length. I see that it does include a reference I've never seen before. The way it's written it sure sounds like it's referencing Epicurus, but the footnote refers to Marcus Aurelius (Marcus Aurelius (1930) Meditations: 9. 41. Edited and translated by Haines CR. The Loeb Classical Library. Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, pp 254–257) Perhaps Aurelius is referring to Epicurus, or perhaps I'm just not reading it properly.

    Quote

    Epicurus obviously followed these palliative measures in his final-stage disease. Surgery could have been a more appropriate management. Surgical interventions in urinary tract diseases were not unknown at the time [7], but most probably they couldn’t help in this specific case. On the other hand, the philosopher himself did not seem eager to accept any extraordinary medical intervention: ‘‘nor did I let the physicians ride the high horse as if they were doing grand things’’ [15]

  • TauPhi
    03 - Full Member
    Points
    1,793
    Posts
    202
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    92.5 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 5:19 PM
    • #82

    This is an interesting question. We're in the realm of speculation and most likely we will never know for sure but I always found the beginning of the letter to Idomeneus quite peculiar: "On this blissful day, which is also the last of my life, I write this to you. [...]"

    How could Epicurus know that it was the last day and why he called it blissful? To me, it sounds a bit like: "There's nothing much to be done, so I feel relief as I made a decision to pull the plug today and end the suffering".

    Maybe it would be worthwhile to closely inspect original Greek to shed more light on this sentence?

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    15,025
    Posts
    1,904
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 5:59 PM
    • #83
    Quote

    How could Epicurus know that it was the last day and why he called it blissful? To me, it sounds a bit like: "There's nothing much to be done, so I feel relief as I made a decision to pull the plug today and end the suffering".

    It's difficult to separate the fact from the wish-thinking. I knew three different people to whom this kind of foreknowledge has been ascribed. A husband who sent flowers to his wife at work on the morning of his death. A woman who worked tirelessly to repeal a law she believed was immoral, and died in her bed with her hands clasped over her abdomen the day that law was repealed. A man who requested blackberry brandy and died after draining the glass.

    I do not accept these uncritically, and would not suggest a cause outside of nature even if I did, but I don't think it's impossible for a person to know that the moment of their death is at hand. Maybe they feel that death is coming on in the same way that we feel a sneeze is coming on. Maybe they can even choose a time to stop struggling for life and let go. Fifty years after signing the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams both died on the 4th of July, the last living members of the committee that had produced that document.

    Jefferson's Last Words
    What did Jefferson say shortly before he died on July 4, 1826.
    www.monticello.org
  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,172
    Posts
    5,592
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 6:08 PM
    • #84

    This is the word used in Epicurus' letter:

    Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, τελευτ-αῖος

    "Τὴν μακαρίαν ἄγοντες καὶ ἅμα τελευταίαν ἡμέραν τοῦ βίου ἐγράφομεν ὑμῖν ταυτί.

    Why does he use ἐγράφομεν "we write"? 1st person plural?

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,716
    Posts
    866
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • April 30, 2025 at 8:05 PM
    • #85
    Quote from Don

    Why does he use ἐγράφομεν "we write"? 1st person plural?

    I've been considering if this choice was a reflection of those texts being expressions of the collective thought held by the leaders of the Garden, or else, if it evident (as I think might be the case with the Last Will) that someone was transcribing on behalf of Epicurus, or else, copying material.

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    15,025
    Posts
    1,904
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 8:29 PM
    • #86

    I see we have discussed some of these questions at length in a thread from 2022;

    Thread

    Did Epicurus Commit Suicide Due To His Disease? (Merger of Two Threads On When Voluntary Death Makes Sense)

    […]

    I know you bring this up on occasion, but I can never remember the textual reference. Where is that?
    Don
    December 7, 2022 at 7:14 AM

    edit; see @Martin's comment  #61 in that thread.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 9:22 PM
    • #87

    We discussed this issue briefly in tonight's Wednesday Zoom and I thought I remembered that there was another Epicurean thought to have committed suicide. As is often the case i can sometimes remember the first letter of a name but often mess up the main part. In this case the name I could not remember did start with a D, but it appears to be one Diodorus as referenced by Seneca (see below).

    And I see in that earlier thread that there is some issue that maybe Democritus went out in similar way.


    Post

    RE: Did Epicurus Commit Suicide Due To His Disease? (Merger of Two Threads On When Voluntary Death Makes Sense)

    More from James Warren (same source):

    it is the result of a calculation that the alternative would be a continued life of pain. Provided life has pleasure left in it,we will continue to live. And the Epicurean sage will be sufficiently schooled to continue to find pleasure in life under conditions which others would find unbearable—Epicurus' own example of composure in the face of terminal illness demonstrates this. 345 Seneca reports the suicide of an Epicurean named Diodorus. On this…
    Cassius
    December 8, 2022 at 10:14 PM
  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,172
    Posts
    5,592
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • April 30, 2025 at 11:36 PM
    • #88
    Quote from Bryan

    he took his own life by drinking neat wine."

    -- Pausanias, Description of Greece 10.23.12 (2nd century AD)

    ἑκουσίως ἀφεῖναι τὴν ψυχὴν ἀκράτου πίνοντα τοῦ οἴνου.

    DL10.15 Hermippus relates that [Epicurus] entered a bronze bath of lukewarm water and asked for unmixed wine,

    Ἕρμιππος ἐμβάντα αὐτὸν εἰς πύελον χαλκῆν κεκραμένην ὕδατι θερμῷ καὶ αἰτήσαντα ἄκρατον ῥοφῆσαι:...

    Just had to check it was the same word. Sure enough. ἄκρατον

  • Cassius May 1, 2025 at 6:44 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “In Epicurean Philosophy Is Suicide (Or voluntary death of any kind) ever warranted?” to “Did Epicurus Commit Suicide Due To His Disease? (Merger of Two Threads On When Voluntary Death Makes Sense)”.
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 1, 2025 at 6:48 AM
    • #89

    I merged our recent discussion of the effect of unmixed wine with the previous thread on voluntary death since the topic is essentially the same. As discussion on this has progressed one aspect that seem particularly interesting is Bryan's latest post as to the Gaul who was reported to have committed suicide by unmixed wine. Further, there seem to be reasonable conjecture that drinking unmixed wine might have been an accepted euphemism for suicide, or that drinking of unmixed wine was at times accompanied by poison. All of this would need citations to texts for them to become more viable suggestions, so we can pursue all of this discussion here with all the background in one place.

  • Godfrey
    Epicurist
    Points
    12,249
    Posts
    1,715
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    85.0 %
    Bookmarks
    1
    • May 2, 2025 at 2:14 AM
    • #90

    I'm asking this in complete ignorance on the subject, but is it possible that ancient Greek wine was made through a different process than today's French and California wines? Some type of extremely strong retsina? Something that needed water mixed in just to be palatable as well as safe to drink?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_G…fore%20pressing.

    https://www.badancient.com/claims/ancient…oman%20cultures.

    https://greekreporter.com/2022/05/09/why-ancient-greeks-mixed-wine-with-seawater/

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • May 2, 2025 at 6:02 AM
    • #91

    Very interesting!

    Quote

    So then, what of Pliny’s reference to Roman Falernian wine lighting with a flame (Natural History 14.8)? Or Plutarch’s description of Alexander the Great’s wine drinking contest where more than 40 men died from excessive consumption (Life of Alexander 70.1)?

    The facts of that article are very interesting, but its argument in conclusion that it is false to suppose that ancient wine was stronger than modern wine seems very poorly argued to me. I suppose it's saying "as a general rule" and maybe that's fair, but the conclusion itself seems overbroad to me.

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,172
    Posts
    5,592
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • May 2, 2025 at 6:07 AM
    • #92

    Those are fascinating articles. Thanks for sharing, Godfrey . To directly respond to:

    Quote from Godfrey

    Something that needed water mixed in just to be palatable as well as safe to drink?

    No, I don't see any evidence of that. One thing counter to that idea I've read in the past is about the symposiarch who ran the drinking parties (symposia, literally "together-drinking") being in charge of how much water to mix in the wine as the evening progressed to regulate the level of drunkenness.

    Wine was a ubiquitous beverage with a wide range of qualities and flavors. But it was, from everything I've read, all potable. Granted, we may find some products less palatable ourselves but we're spoiled from modern stabilisation and consistency.

    I found this intriguing in the one article:

    Quote

    Drinking wine that was not mixed with water (άκρατος οίνος) was considered barbaric. Such wine without water was used only as medicine for the sick or during travel as a tonic.

    That Greek is the same word that showed up in our texts above.

    For anyone curious about retsina:

    Retsina - Wikipedia
    en.wikipedia.org
  • Bryan
    ὁ Φιλαληθής
    Points
    4,976
    Posts
    611
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    97.6 %
    • July 5, 2025 at 9:08 PM
    • New
    • #93

    I think this is the most instructive clue I have found, (Laertius 4.44):

    "[Arcesilaus] died in a fit of madness, as Hermippus says, after drinking a good deal of unmixed wine, he had by then reached the age of seventy-five, and no man was more highly regarded by the Athenians."

    That alone is only suggestive (just like the example with Epicurus), however the very next line, Diogenes says:

    "My own verses about him run as follows: Why, Arcesilaus, did you draw unmixed wine so unsparingly as to take leave of your sense? I pity you not so much for your death..."

    ------
    As a side note about Arcesilaus being "highly regarded," Plutarch says "The reputation of Arcesilaus seems to immoderately distress Epicurus -- given that [Arcesilaus] was especially admired among the philosophers in those times" Plutarch (fl. 80 CE), Against Colotes, 26, 1121 E fin.

    Arcesilaus was a pupil of both Theophrastus and Pyrrho, yet he ended up leading the Academy a few years after Epicurus died.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • July 5, 2025 at 9:23 PM
    • New
    • #94

    So you're reading that to mean that unmixed wine can kill(?), but Bryan I find Laertius' poem hard to decipher too. What is he saying - that he died unintentionally?

  • Bryan
    ὁ Φιλαληθής
    Points
    4,976
    Posts
    611
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    97.6 %
    • July 5, 2025 at 9:47 PM
    • New
    • #95

    I take from the poem, and the whole passage, that in Laertius' writings "drinking unmixed wine" certainly stands for "intentional death."

    This was already rather clear, but I think 4.44 makes it undeniable.

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,172
    Posts
    5,592
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • July 6, 2025 at 7:40 AM
    • New
    • #96
    Quote from Bryan

    "[Arcesilaus] died in a fit of madness, as Hermippus says, after drinking a good deal of unmixed wine, he had by then reached the age of seventy-five, and no man was more highly regarded by the Athenians."

    Hicks translates that section as (my emphasis): He died, according to Hermippus, through drinking too freely of unmixed wine which affected his reason; he was already seventy-five and regarded by the Athenians with unparalleled good-will.

    Quote from Bryan

    "My own verses about him run as follows: Why, Arcesilaus, did you draw unmixed wine so unsparingly as to take leave of your sense? I pity you not so much for your death..."

    And Hicks in 4.45 (again my emphasis): [45] I have written upon him as follows: Why, pray, Arcesilaus, didst thou quaff so unsparingly unmixed wine as to go out of thy mind? I pity thee not so much for thy death as because thou didst insult the Muses by immoderate potations.

    There's also Diogenes chapter on Chrysippus:

    Quote

    On one occasion, as Hermippus relates, when [Chrysippus] had his school in the Odeum, he was invited by his pupils to a sacrificial feast. There after he had taken a draught of sweet wine unmixed with water, he was seized with dizziness and departed this life five days afterwards, having reached the age of seventy-three years, in the 143rd Olympiad. This is the date given by Apollodorus in his Chronology. I have toyed with the subject in the following verses5 :

    Chrysippus turned giddy after gulping down a draught of Bacchus ; he spared not the Porch nor his country nor his own life, but fared straight to the house of Hades.

    [185] Another account is that his death was caused by a violent fit of laughter ; for after an ass had eaten up his figs, he cried out to the old woman, "Now give the ass a drink of pure wine to wash down the figs." And thereupon he laughed so heartily that he died.

    Drinking unmixed wine is certainly frowned upon since it brings on giddyness and takes away reason, but I'm still skeptical of seeing it as a metaphor for committing suicide, although it was deemed dangerous it appears. Barbarians were known to drink unmixed wine which is one reason they were "barbaric." There is an interesting article I found online:

    Quote

    Yet more dramatically, Alexander himself – according to one account – brought on his early death at 32 by drinking a separate toast to each of his twenty dinner guests one by one, and then finishing off a twelve-pint pitcher of unmixed wine.

    ...

    Unmixed wine was deemed dangerous: many a Greek poem lamented it as the cause of an untimely death. Even Cleomenes (died 490 BC), the hardman King of Sparta, couldn’t handle wine “in the Scythian fashion”, i.e. without water, instead tippling his way into lunacy. Given such risks, unmixed wine was reserved only for drinking forfeits.

    ...

    So next time you find yourself knee-deep in unmixed wine, toast the drink of the uncouth and ungodly – and steel yourself for the madness that must follow…

    Unmixed wine brought on dizziness, lunacy, etc., but it was also a potent remedy to feeling pain. That would be my suggestion as to why Epicurus called for akraton "unmixed wine" on his last day. He was in severe pain, not to hasten his death. He knew his death was already imminent from the amount of pain he was in.

    Additionally, I continue to maintain that VS47 is not talking about suicide. As a reminder for anyone:

    Vatican Saying 47 - Epicurus Wiki

    Epicurus Wiki does a good job of giving a literal translation of Metrodorus' saying: "...shall we give ourselves in surrender but when that which is necessary extracts [us] (from life)..."

    When death comes eventually for all of us, we should not "rage against the dying of the light" but look back on life with satisfaction and not cling like fearful superstitious children, wishing for immortality or a life after death.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • July 6, 2025 at 8:17 AM
    • New
    • #97

    Lots of interesting stuff there including the rage against the dying light which might need its own thread to analyze.

    But I think we are establishing that drinking unmixed wine was known to be very dangerous and thus Epicurus would have known at the least that it might be fatal.

    I personally would go further than Don in my conclusions at this point but that might mean diving into what the "rage against the dying light" really means.

    At present I am mainly willing to say that there can come a time (mostly cases of clinically certain terminal highly painful disease combined with advanced age) when it can be a rational assessment to conclude that future pleasure is not worth the cost in pain.

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,172
    Posts
    5,592
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • July 6, 2025 at 8:49 AM
    • New
    • #98
    Quote from Cassius

    we are establishing that drinking unmixed wine was known thought to be very dangerous

    Fixed it.

    Quote from Cassius

    Epicurus would have known at the least that it might be fatal.

    I'm not willing to agree to that.

    Quote from Cassius

    At present I am mainly willing to say that there can come a time (mostly cases of clinically certain terminal highly painful disease combined with advanced age) when it can be a rational assessment to conclude that future pleasure is not worth the cost in pain.

    I'm not arguing against that, but that's exactly what I'm trying to get across. My primary position is against taking "extraordinary" measures to preserve life "at all costs" when death is imminent or there is no viable way to ameliorate constant, severe pain. I see a difference in actively taking one's life and not prolonging one's life. I don't believe VS47 nor the episode with Epicurus' drinking unmixed wine and taking a bath are talking about suicide.

    (PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT making any moral argument against suicide or those who take their lives. This is an extremely complicated topic, including people dealing with deep mental health issues, including celebrities like Robin Williams and Anthony Bourdain. This is not a topic to be taken lightly or flippantly, and I don't want anyone to take this discussion that way.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    103,807
    Posts
    14,212
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • July 6, 2025 at 8:56 AM
    • New
    • #99

    Let's do a separate thread on the Dylan Thomas poem:

    Thread

    Epicurus And The Dylan Thomas Poem - "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

    Don referenced this poem so maybe we should discuss it:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_go…that_good_night
    Cassius
    July 6, 2025 at 8:55 AM

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Mocking Epithets 2

      • Like 2
      • Bryan
      • July 4, 2025 at 3:01 PM
      • Comparing Epicurus With Other Philosophers - General Discussion
      • Bryan
      • July 6, 2025 at 11:18 AM
    2. Replies
      2
      Views
      143
      2
    3. Eikadistes

      July 6, 2025 at 11:18 AM
    1. Best Lucretius translation? 12

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 8:40 AM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Rolf
      • July 1, 2025 at 1:59 PM
    2. Replies
      12
      Views
      724
      12
    3. Eikadistes

      July 1, 2025 at 1:59 PM
    1. Philodemus' "On Anger" - General - Texts and Resources 19

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • April 1, 2022 at 5:36 PM
      • Philodemus On Anger
      • Cassius
      • June 30, 2025 at 8:54 AM
    2. Replies
      19
      Views
      6.3k
      19
    3. Don

      June 30, 2025 at 8:54 AM
    1. The Religion of Nature - as supported by Lucretius' De Rerum Natura 4

      • Thanks 1
      • Kalosyni
      • June 12, 2025 at 12:03 PM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Kalosyni
      • June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      739
      4
    3. Godfrey

      June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    1. New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

      • Like 3
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
      • Epicurus vs Abraham (Judaism, Christianity, Islam)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      1.7k

Latest Posts

  • Epicurus' Prolepsis vs Heraclitus' Flux

    Don July 6, 2025 at 5:46 PM
  • Episode 289 - TD19 - "Is The Wise Man Subject To Anger, Envy, or Pity?" To Be Recorded

    Kalosyni July 6, 2025 at 3:34 PM
  • Welcome Dlippman!

    Cassius July 6, 2025 at 11:47 AM
  • Mocking Epithets

    Eikadistes July 6, 2025 at 11:18 AM
  • Epicurus And The Dylan Thomas Poem - "Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night"

    Cassius July 6, 2025 at 11:17 AM
  • Welcome Ben Hari!

    Cassius July 6, 2025 at 11:14 AM
  • Johari windows useful in Epicurean philosophy? (thread started by Adrastus)

    Eikadistes July 6, 2025 at 11:06 AM
  • Prolepsis of the gods

    Eikadistes July 6, 2025 at 10:43 AM
  • What amount of effort should be put into pursuing pleasure or removing pain?

    Patrikios July 6, 2025 at 10:14 AM
  • What place does "simple" have in Epicureanism?

    Adrastus July 6, 2025 at 9:41 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design