June 29, 2022 Epicurean Zoom Gathering

Thank you!!!

A couple interesting parallels between the Tetrapharmakos and PD11 in the Greek:

2nd line of Tetrapharmakos:

ἀνύποπτον ὁ θάνατος

Death is "free from risk" (lit., Without suspicion)

2a. ἀνύποπτος (anypoptos) LSJ: without suspicion; i.e., free from risk, “θάνατος” Phld.Sto.Herc.339.4.

PD11 (beginning...)

Εἰ μηθὲν ἡμᾶς αἱ τῶν μετεώρων ὑποψίαι ἠνώχλουν καὶ αἱ περὶ θανάτου,...

If our *suspicions* about astronomical phenomena and about death were nothing to us and troubled us not at all,

ὑποψίαι

1. suspicion, jealousy, ὑποψίην ἔχειν ἔς τινα Hdt., attic; πρός τινα Dem.; ἐν ὑπ. ποιεῖσθαι Aeschin.

2. of the object, ἔχειν ὑπ. to admit of suspicion, Plat.; ὑπ. παρέχειν Thuc.

ἀνύποπτος (anypoptos) and ὑποψίαι (hypopsiai)

are related to each other.

Other related terms:

ύποπτος m (ýpoptos, “suspect”)

ύποπτη f (ýpopti, “suspect”)

ύποπτος (ýpoptos, “suspect”) (adjective)

υποπτεύομαι (ypoptévomai, “to suspect”)

I'll attend

Great! I hear Godfrey may join us too!

PD11. If we were not troubled by our suspicions of the phenomena of the sky, and about death, fearing that it concerns us, and also by our failure to grasp the limits of pains and desires, we should have no need of natural science.

PD12. A man cannot dispel his fear about the most important matters if he does not know what is the nature of the universe, but suspects the truth of some mythical story. So that, without natural science, it is not possible to attain our pleasures unalloyed.

Nate's Compilation:

Doctrine Eleven

**EΙ ΜΗΘEΝ ****ΗΜAΣ AΙ TΩΝ ΜETEΩΡΩΝ ΥΠΟΨΙAΙ ΗΝΩΧΛΟΥΝ**

**ΚAΙ AΙ ΠEΡΙ ΘAΝATΟΥ ****ΜΗ ΠΟTE ΠΡΟΣ ΗΜAΣ ῌ TΙ ETΙ TE TΟ**

**ΜΗ ΚATAΝΟEΙΝ ****TΟΥΣ ΟΡΟΥΣ TΩΝ AΛΓΗΔΟΝΩΝ ****ΚAΙ TΩΝ**

**EΠΙΘΥΜΙΩΝ ****ΟΥΚ AΝ ΠΡΟΣEΔEΟΜEΘA ΦΥΣΙΟΛΟΓΙAΣ. **

“If apprehensions relating to the heavenly bodies did not disturb us, and if the terrors of death have no concern with us, and if we had the courage to contemplate the boundaries of pain and of the desires, we should have no need of physiological studies.” Yonge (1853)

“If we had never been molested by alarms at celestial and atmospheric phenomena, nor by the misgiving that death somehow affects us, nor by neglect of the proper limits of pains and desires, we should have had no need to study natural science.” Hicks (1910)

“If we were not troubled by our suspicions of the phenomena of the sky and about death, fearing that it concerns us, and also by our failure to grasp the limits of pains and desires, we should have no need of natural science.” Bailey (1926)

“If our dread of the phenomena above us, our fear lest death concern us, and our inability to discern the limits of pains and desires were not vexations to us, we would have no need of the natural sciences.” Geer (1964)

“Were we not upset by the worries that celestial phenomena and death might matter to us, and also by failure to appreciate the limits of pains and desires, we would have no need for natural philosophy.” Long, The Hellenistic Philosophers 155 (1987)

“If apprehensions about the heavens and our fear lest death concern us, as well as our failure to realize the limits of pains and desires, did not bother us, we would have no need of natural science.” O'Connor (1993)

“If our suspicions about heavenly phenomena and about death did not trouble us at all and were never anything to us, and, moreover, if not knowing the limits of pains and desires did not trouble us, then we would have no need of natural science.” Inwood & Gerson (1994)

“If we were never troubled by how phenomena in the sky or death might concern us, or by our failures to grasp the limits of pains and desires, we would have no need to study nature.” Anderson (2004)

“If we were never perturbed by frightful second-guessing of natural phenomena and death; if, adding to the above, we were never [beset by] failure to comprehend the proper limits of pains and pleasures: then, we would have no need of natural science.” Makridis (2005)

“If our suspicions about astronomical phenomena and about death were nothing to us and troubled us not at all, and if this were also the case regarding our ignorance about the limits of our pains and desires, then we would have no need for studying what is natural.” Saint-Andre (2008)

“We would have no need for natural science unless we were worried by apprehensiveness regarding the heavenly bodies, by anxiety about the meaning of death, and also by our failure to understand the limitations of pain and desire.” Strodach (2012)

“If we were not harassed by apprehensions caused by celestial phenomena and by the fear that death somehow affects us, and by our failure to comprehend the limits of pains and desires, we would have no need for natural science.” Mensch (2018)

“If no worries about celestial things troubled us at all, or any about death possibly mattering for us, or again if we did not understand the boundaries of pain and desire, we would have no more need for the study of nature.” White (2021)

Doctrine Twelve

**ΟΥΚ ΗΝ TΟ ΦΟΒΟΥΜEΝΟΝ ΛΥEΙΝ ****ΥΠEΡ TΩΝ ΚΥΡΙΩTATΩΝ**

**ΜΗ ΚATEΙΔΟTA ****TΙΣ Η TΟΥ ΣΥΜΠAΝTΟΣ ΦΥΣΙΣ ****AΛΛ**

**ΥΠΟΠTEΥΟMENON ****TΙ TΩΝ ΚATA TΟΥΣ ΜΥΘΟΥΣ·**** ΩΣTE ΟΥΚ**

**ΗΝ AΝEΥ ΦΥΣΙΟΛΟΓΙAΣ AΚEΡAΙΟΥΣ ****TAΣ ΗΔΟΝAΣ**

**AΠΟΛAΜΒAΝEΙΝ. **

“It would not be possible for a person to banish all fear about those things which are called most essential, unless he knew what is the nature of the universe, or if he had any idea that the fables told about it could be true; and therefore a person cannot enjoy unmixed pleasure without physiological knowledge.” Yonge (1853)

“It would be impossible to banish fear on matters of the highest importance if a man did not know the nature of the whole universe but lived in dread of what the legends tell us.

Hence, without the study of nature there was no enjoyment of unmixed pleasures.”

Hicks (1910)

“It would be impossible to banish fear on matters of the highest importance, if a man did not know the nature of the whole universe, but lived in dread of what the legends tell us. Hence without the study of nature there was no enjoyment of unmixed pleasures.” Hicks (1925)

“A man cannot dispel his fear about the most important matters if he does not know what is the nature of the universe but suspects the truth of some mythical story. So that without natural science it is not possible to attain our pleasures unalloyed.” Bailey (1926)

“It is impossible for men to dispel the fear concerning things of supreme importance not understanding the nature of the whole universe but suspecting there may be some truth in the stories related in the myths. Consequently it is impossible without the knowledge of Nature to enjoy the pleasures unalloyed.” DeWitt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 305 (1954)

“It is not possible for one to rid himself of his fears about the most important things if he does not understand the nature of the universe but dreads some of the things he has learned in the myths. Therefore, it is not possible to gain unmixed happiness without natural science.” Geer (1964)

“There is no way to dispel the fear about matters of supreme importance, for someone who does not know what the nature of the universe is but retains some of the fears based on mythology. Hence without natural philosophy there is no way of securing the purity of our pleasures.” Long, The Hellenistic Philosophers 155 (1987)

“It is impossible for anyone to dispel his fear over the most important matters, if he does not know what is the nature of the universe but instead suspects something that happens in myth. Therefore, it is impossible to obtain unmitigated pleasure without natural science.” O'Connor (1993)

“It is impossible for someone ignorant about the nature of the universe but still suspicious about the subjects of the myths to dissolve his feelings of fear about the most important matters. So it is impossible to receive unmixed pleasures without knowing natural science.” Inwood & Gerson (1994)

“One cannot rid himself of his primal fears if he does not understand the nature of the universe but instead suspects the truth of some mythical story. So without the study of nature, there can be no enjoyment of pure pleasure.” Anderson (2004)

“It is impossible to be released from fear about the most important things for one who, not having adequate knowledge as to what the nature of the whole is, is trying to second-guess this or that in accordance with the [traditional] fairy tales. Hence, it is impossible to enjoy the pleasures in full unless one has studied natural science.” Makridis (2005)

“It is impossible for someone who is completely ignorant about nature to wash away his fears about the most important matters if he retains some suspicions about the myths.

So it is impossible to experience undiluted enjoyment without studying what is natural.” Saint-Andre (2008)

“It is impossible to get rid of our anxieties about essentials if we do not understand the nature of the universe and are apprehensive about some of the theological accounts.

Hence it is impossible to enjoy our pleasures unadulterated without natural science.” Strodach (2012)

“It would not be possible to dispel fear about the most important matters if a man did not know the nature of the universe, but lived in dread of what the myths describe.

Hence, it would be impossible without the study of nature to enjoy unmixed pleasures.” Mensch (2018)

“There was no way to release someone from fear about the most important things if he does not know the nature of the entirety [sc. universe] and if he is worried about any of the tales sung of old; and so there was no way to obtain unmixed pleasures without studying nature.” White (2021)

News Items To Mention Tonight:

1. Upcoming Festival in Senigallia Italy.
2. Recent Discussions on the Forum
3. Plans for Upcoming Review of "Epicurus and His Philosophy
4. Recent thread on "Romantic Love" is expanding and that topic is always a favorite.
5. Others?

Thanks to those who joined tonight. We had a very good crowd - not counting the "zoom bombers" who we had to eliminate at the start! That was a weird experience!