Supernatural and the Senses

Quote from Matt

Everyone needs to start branching off.

That appears to be where things have fallen through in the past. Yes this is true, but in the end it takes "leadership" of a kind that I personally am not well equipped to provide! Or else we would be a lot further along already!

I think it is true that nothing really productive ever gets done by a committee alone, and that anything has to have a direction and a couple of leaders who help coordinate things. There are always a thousand reasons "not" to do things, and it takes some dedicated people to power past the obstacles.

Quote from Matt

But regardless a unified teaching curriculum would be needed to be the source for all the branches of the Garden.

Yes I agree. We can't wait until all 38 (or is it 37) books are reconstructed, we have to start with the outline basics and get things going, then fill in the details over time. I don't see any evidence that Epicurus waited until all or most of his books were written before he started organizing.

It is a start anyway. Maybe the question is "what does a group of Epicureans getting together with each other do?

Some kind of pattern of activities combining a "lesson" or lecture with some kind of enjoyable activity (food)? Plus something that invites participation so people can get to know one another better.

And maybe a key element in the picture is that the structure has to give the local leader some motivation to be the local leader. In other words, not necessarily financial motivation, but some kind of reward or compensation for all of the effort that it takes to spearhead local activity.

We have half-joked before about the issue of "certifying" local people for things such as performing wedding ceremonies, but these issues have to be figured out without getting anywhere close to the "cult" status that we discussed in the last podcast.

Quote from Cassius

It is a start anyway. Maybe the question is "what does a group of Epicureans getting together with each other do?

Some kind of pattern of activities combining a "lesson" or lecture with some kind of enjoyable activity (food)? Plus something that invites participation so people can get to know one another better.

Perhaps a similar structure as the podcast can be part of it, with reading and discussion? Sometimes from non-Epicurean writers in order to generate discussion.

Food is clearly traditional. Also a garden if weather permits.

Yes I agree. What we are starting to see in the way we structure the podcast and some of the Twentieth skype sessions is going to lead in the right direct.

Some kind of

- Open with welcome to everyone and state the agenda.

- Some kind of brief presentation of a point of philosophy.

- Some kind of question/answer "roundtable" about the point of philosophy that was raised.

- Some kind of introduction of everyone by first name of who is there and a sentence or two or three (no more) about their background in Epicurus

- Then maybe a "thank you for coming and our next meeting will be _______ and in the meantime we invite you to join us in our ongoing discussions at http://www.Hometown_lEpicureans.com. " And then say "We invite everyone to hang around and introduce themselves further and enjoy our cookies and punch (or whatever).

We can do the same thing pretty much by zoom or at the local library.

Quote from smoothiekiwi

And also a thought- where would be a good place to organize such meetings? I wasn't able to find a good solution for that.

Someone's backyard is the canonical location. But lots of cities also have public meeting buildings for groups as these.

I think finding a critical mass of people in a given location is a much larger issue than the logistics.

Yes I am thinking like Simon in terms of public meeting places -- probably libraries in most communities. There's probably too much danger in inviting people to one's homes until we get to know them fairly well. Just like here on the forum where we need to "get to know" people for a while before giving them higher posting rights, there will need to be a vetting process that takes place at public locations first.

But I agree -- open to everyone and be more generic and diplomatic at the open meetings than we would in private conversations. It won't take long for people to get the message that an Epicurean group isn't a cooking or boating club.

Quote from SimonC

I think finding a critical mass of people in a given location is a much larger issue than the logistics.

I have wondered what kind of people would come to an in-person meeting on "Epicurean Philosophy"?

But before I can even answer that question I have to consider that in-person meeting aren't isn't going to happen for a while until Omicron cases come down.

"The 7-day rolling average of new coronavirus cases as they were reported by the Oregon Health Authority: 8,660"...Further here is what is happening for kids in schools: “If a school cannot confirm that 6 feet of distancing was consistently maintained or 3 foot distancing with consistent mask use was maintained during the school day, then each person the confirmed case was in contact with would be considered a close contact. Exposed close contacts without symptoms would either need to quarantine for seven days or be part of a “test-to-stay” program." ...Indoor masking requirements for all indoor public places remain (for all people over age 2)

My reason for the giving the above statistics, is that here in Oregon, people will probably be more likely to join a Zoom meeting than to attend something in-person. But then who will join a Zoom meeting? It comes down to very few people...so for now this must be both on national and global level, not local level. That's just my opinion for now. Come summertime things might be different, and in addition outdoor meeting at parks or outdoor areas of breweries might make for a good meeting location.

Yes this has to happen in stages. But I do think we all need to be clear about the eventual goal , which is real-life local friendships, real-life marriages, real life Epicurean children and childhood education, etc.! The whole nine yards that they had in the ancient world.

Quote from Cassius

Yes this has to happen in stages. But I do think we all need to be clear about the eventual goal , which is real-life local friendships, real-life marriages, real life Epicurean children and childhood education, etc.! The whole nine yards that they had in the ancient world. 

Aim high, ο φίλος μου! Aim high, my friend!

I sometimes wonder if contacting some Unitarian Universalist churches wouldn't be fruitful to set up Epicurean "study groups" or events.

We went to a UU church a number of years ago when the kids were little, and they were very (almost too) open to all beliefs and non-beliefs.

Side note: My favorite anecdote from that time happened during the Q&A after the sermon one Sunday. It was a sermon on spirituality, etc., and one of the attendees (a long-time member!) raised his hand and started his comment with "I have to say that I'm not comfortable with all this God talk." Yeah, it was that kind of congregation

Quote from Don

Aim high, ο φίλος μου! Aim high, my friend!

Nothing but the best for us!

Quote from Matt

have more in common with many online individuals that I’ve never met, but corresponded with for almost 7 years than I do with many of my in person friends.

I feel exactly the same way and this is a source of much amazement and disbelief to some of my local friends to whom I mention it.

Quote from Don

hey were very (almost too) open to all beliefs and non-beliefs.

Yes that is part of the issue (they may tend to be radical skeptics) and then there is the "humanism" issue which is probably too much of a tangent to tackle here. This is one of the areas where some of Elayne's past commentary was most helpful. She had impeccable - sterling - credentials in dealing with the people who are attracted to the UU approach (because she had been down that path and understood and agreed with many of their policy views) but she understood how selecting particular views of the "good" would be contradictory to the basics of the philosophy of an atomistic universe.

Quote from Cassius

selecting particular views of the "good" would be contradictory to the basics of the philosophy of an atomistic universe.

Everyone has a formulation in their mind about what is "good" and what is "true". And unless they have a materialist view and pragmatic pleasure goal, then their mental conceptions and words will all be based on something very different than the "Epicurean worldview".

And in addition, here on the forum our definition of "good" and "true" is anything that is synonymous to the original teachings of Epicurus. Until everyone is completely clear about what the original teachings of Epicurus are, then we can't move forward as easily. So we almost need an "Epicurean Bible".

And now, I am not so sure that having meetings at a UU church would work...as there can be a "religious" undercurrent (a loving/benevolent Universe) based on a worldview that is different than Epicurean worldview. Epicureans would say the "Universe" is indifferent. And what exactly is this "Universe"...Epicureans would cognate it differently than UU's.