Welcome HollyGraves!

Welcome HollyGraves

[I am very happy to welcome HollyGravesto the forum. I'm including the standard "Welcome Message" below in case someone has decided to hijack the username, but if this is "the" HollyGraves the we have someone who's been very helpful to Elli and Martin and I (and others) in the past, and who we are very glad to have an account over here!]

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All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.

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In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.

"Epicurus and His Philosophy" by Norman DeWitt

The Biography of Epicurus by Diogenes Laertius. This includes the surviving letters of Epicurus, including those to Herodotus, Pythocles, and Menoeceus.

"On The Nature of Things" - by Lucretius (a poetic abridgement of Epicurus' "On Nature"

"Epicurus on Pleasure" - By Boris Nikolsky

The chapters on Epicurus in Gosling and Taylor's "The Greeks On Pleasure."

Cicero's "On Ends" - Torquatus Section

Cicero's "On The Nature of the Gods" - Velleius Section

The Inscription of Diogenes of Oinoanda - Martin Ferguson Smith translation

A Few Days In Athens" - Frances Wright

Lucian Core Texts on Epicurus: (1) Alexander the Oracle-Monger, (2) Hermotimus

Philodemus "On Methods of Inference" (De Lacy version, including his appendix on relationship of Epicurean canon to Aristotle and other Greeks)

"The Greeks on Pleasure" -Gosling & Taylor Sections on Epicurus, especially the section on katastematic and kinetic pleasure which explains why ultimately this distinction was not of great significance to Epicurus.

It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.

And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.

(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).

Welcome to the forum!

Holly your recent Basil Rathbone post reminded me of your interest in movies, and we have a section on Epicurean-Friendly Movies here that you might have some suggestions for:

Movies / Books (fiction) With Epicurean Philosophical Themes

And i see that Don just welcomed you and you may find some commonailities to discuss since he is a luminary in the world of library science, though in an adjoining state so there may be some rivalry involved

There is "some" truth to calling Don a luminary in both the library and podcasting world, but what is even more certainly true is that having a "sense of humor" (and having the good sense to know when humor is appropriate and when it is not") ought to be considered an essential requirement in participating in an Epicurean community.

I can't imagine a group of "friends" who don't have a sense of humor among themselves.

Humor is easy to misunderstand, and it's especially a hazard since we don't "lock down" the forum to outside readers. But we have emojis and other ways to make things clear, and if something seems questionable we also have the Epicurean "frank criticism" (plus a private conversation system and private forum sections) to straighten things out - so anytime someone wonders how to take something, don't hesitate to ask.

It is interesting how Cicero makes that remark. Sounds to me more like someone who does not appreciate philosophical jibes and jokes made at their expense, given that Cicero's team would be on the receiving end of Epicurus' attacks - humorous and otherwise.

Letter to Pythocles

[115] ... The signs of the weather which are given by certain animals result from mere coincidence of occasion. For the animals do not exert any compulsion for winter to come to an end, nor is there some divine nature which sits and watches the outgoings of these animals and then fulfills the signs they give. [116] For not even the lowest animal ... would be seized by such foolishness, much less one who was possessed of perfect happiness.

However I bet there probably IS a grain of truth to what Cicero said, and that we can still see in the face of Epicurus' statue with his piercing eyes. I suspect Epicurus was very capable of being very funny at some times, and extremely serious at others, as the situation required. And given the seriousness of the philosophical issues at stake, I suspect the situation required seriousness very often, even when the subject was Pleasure.

We probably should assemble a set of quotes of what is either obviously or implicitly Epicurean humor.