⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

It could also be interpreted as an eye (as one of the senses) and therefore be related to the formulation Sic Fac Omnia Tamquam Spectet Epicurus.

I like this better than the Tetrapharmakos "symbol" I've seen online that mashes the tau Τ and phi Φ of that word.

That is an interesting suggestion Michele!

I think it does have some potential, at least for certain uses.

However as to this:

Quote from michelepinto

it does not have a symbol with which it can be identified around the world.

.... I am not sure that the ancient Epicureans would agree --- it seems as if they did have something they used: the bust of Epicurus himself, which you are holding in your excellent avatar!

This is an interesting questions from many perspectives. It probably also relates to the use of the term "Epicurean" as the name of the philosophy rather than "hedonism" or even "atomism" or the like. Both words have uses, but neither word captures the whole philosophy like identifying it with the founder himself does.

And I think that relates too to the issue that Don refers to, such as the use of the Greek letter (such as Society of Epicurus does) representing "friendship". Anything that conveys only one aspect of the philosophy fails to capture the fullness of it, and may tend to falsely imply that one aspect of it is "the most important."

I know personally that was my immediate reaction to the letter indicating friendship, and I think that's also why I rarely refer to the philosophy as atomism or hedonism. Both words have their uses, just as this suggested symbol might.

I suspect even the christians ought to be concerned about the cross for the very same reasons. (Which is one reason I gather than the Mormons do not use the cross very often, even though they consider themselves to be christians.)

If the question were: What unicode symbol on a keyboard would work best, I doubt anyone could come up with any better.... though it would be interesting to consider the options and think about that.

Michelle --- Along the same lines as your post I see this post on Facebook today:

Those are nice images. I put one behind a lampshade for a fun effect. It does solve the issue of not using Forms, but the use of the Greek Key design may be critiqued as not fully using our little boat.

It seems we need a thread on interior decoration. Can you tell me something about the papyrus reproductions on the wall?

Quote from Cassius

Michelle --- Along the same lines as your post I see this post on Facebook today:

That's a beautiful piece of artwork and maybe "represents" the philosophy but it is completely impractical as a symbol or logo. We need something more in line with the Nike swoosh, Christian cross, Islamic crescent, Atheist A, Apple apple, ... You get the idea. Something bold, graphic, and that you could hang from a necklace.

To repeat and expand on michelepinto 's and others' proposals:

• The four sides = The four lines of the Tetrapharmakos
• The dot = the atom (or whatever basic building block of matter you want in modern terms)
  • The space around the dot represents the void.
• The points at the top (a triangle pointing up) and bottom (a triangle pointing down) of the diamond shape represent pain and pleasure.
  • Additionally, the points represent the choices we make based on pain and pleasure. Which way will we decide to go? It's up to us!
• The symbol is an abstract eye to represent the motto SIc fac omnia tamquam spectet Epicurus. You could even include the letters SFOTSE in some arrangements around or inside the diamond.
• The diamond shape with dot is an abstract representation of a walled Garden with a group of people inside.
  • For those Epicureans who want to emphasize lathe biosas it can represent that but doesn't need to.
• The two sides of the diamond represent two people facing each other with outstretched arms < > joining hands in friendship.
• The diamond itself represents the most durable natural physical substance which stands for the unshakable enduring trust in the Canon and the physical nature of the Cosmos with no supernatural intervention.

I'm blue-skying here but just wanted to provide in how many directions you can go with a simple figure. I agree with Cassius that the most traditional "symbol" was the bust of Epicurus but that's hard to capture graphically (unless someone is up for a challenge).

Quote from Titus

Can you tell me something about the papyrus reproductions on the wall?

It is a fun little craft project to print out PHercs, cut them into the surviving pieces and put them under a frame!

Quote from Don

To repeat and expand on michelepinto 's and others' proposals:

• The four sides = The four lines of the Tetrapharmakos
• The dot = the atom (or whatever basic building block of matter you want in modern terms)
  • The space around the dot represents the void.
• The points at the top (a triangle pointing up) and bottom (a triangle pointing down) of the diamond shape represent pain and pleasure.
  • Additionally, the points represent the choices we make based on pain and pleasure. Which way will we decide to go? It's up to us!
• The symbol is an abstract eye to represent the motto SIc fac omnia tamquam spectet Epicurus. You could even include the letters SFOTSE in some arrangements around or inside the diamond.
• The diamond shape with dot is an abstract representation of a walled Garden with a group of people inside.
  • For those Epicureans who want to emphasize lathe biosas it can represent that but doesn't need to.
• The two sides of the diamond represent two people facing each other with outstretched arms < > joining hands in friendship.
• The diamond itself represents the most durable natural physical substance which stands for the unshakable enduring trust in the Canon and the physical nature of the Cosmos with no supernatural intervention.

I'm blue-skying here but just wanted to provide in how many directions you can go with a simple figure. I agree with Cassius that the most traditional "symbol" was the bust of Epicurus but that's hard to capture graphically (unless someone is up for a challenge).

I very much miss having a universally agreed upon symbol for Epicurean philosophy, and I quite like the many ways in which this can be interpreted.

One practical problem is, of course, having actual space between the four sides and the dot in a real-world pendant like a necklace, but I think an diamond-shaped piece of gold/silver (ideally with raised edges) with a stone set in the middle should do fine?

What would we call this symbol?

This is a good example of nothing ever goes away on the Internet I had completely forgotten about this thread from 4 years ago!

Honestly, I still think the idea has some merit. One issue is that, having the Epicurean community being so fragmented and decentralized, it would be difficult for any one image to catch on and be accepted. I remain skeptical of the ΤΦ mashup used elsewhere. It's an interesting graphic image, but tetrapharmakos is technically one word.

The symbol above? The Epicurean Atom?

And, yes, Cassius remains correct, the widespread symbol in the ancient world that we know of was the image of Epicurus in stone, on cups, on rings, etc.

Quote from Don

the widespread symbol in the ancient world that we know of was the image of Epicurus in stone, on cups, on rings, etc.

I do like the idea of a symbol reflecting the Hegemon, himself, in the spirit of consistency with the ancient tradition. This is what I came up with a while ago to place focus back on The Man:

An idea, the animal who most enjoys life holding a pearl of wisdom:

I particularly like this pig graphic. But of course I'm the guy with a toy monkey for an avatar.

I love the pig woodcut design as artwork. Epicurus' bust is great as artwork.

But you have to hand it to the major religions for having easy to spot, easy to draw symbols:

☦️☪️☯️☸️🔯🕉️✡️✝️🪯

That's what we're looking for.

Getting people to agree and use it, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

There are things like the leaping piglet silhouette, Eikadistes ' 20er moon, graphic representations of the Epicurus bust, etc. But for sheer basic graphic symbols, ya gotta hand it to the cross, crescent, Star of David, et al.

Quote from Don

I love the pig woodcut design as artwork. Epicurus' bust is great as artwork.

But you have to hand it to the major religions for having easy to spot, easy to draw symbols:

☦️☪️☯️☸️🔯🕉️✡️✝️🪯

That's what we're looking for.

I agree.

Quote from Don

Getting people to agree and use it, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

This seems to imply getting agreement before actual usage, and I don't think that's how it works. Symbols like these are adopted and used without asking for universal agreement, let alone permission, and they either make it or they don't. As such, the process is an evolutionary trial & error cycle through the court of public opinion, until something just happens to be found that clicks with enough of a majority to catch on. So the trick, in my opinion, is not to make the entire world agree. It should be enough if we can come to reasonable level of agreement amongst each other, and then just try and see what happens.

Quote from Don

There are things like the leaping piglet silhouette, Eikadistes ' 20er moon, graphic representations of the Epicurus bust, etc. But for sheer basic graphic symbols, ya gotta hand it to the cross, crescent, Star of David, et al.

I agree. I think it should ideally be a very simple geometric shape, and if it is to be based on letters, I think it should be stylised (like the tau-phi mashup, like ℅, @, &, 𝄞, etc). So, for example, I like the shape of the 20er moon, but I think the four letters "20er" spelled out are already too much writing to make for a good logo / symbol / …

Quote from Eikadistes

I do like the idea of a symbol reflecting the Hegemon, himself, in the spirit of consistency with the ancient tradition. This is what I came up with a while ago to place focus back on The Man:

I agree that having some continuity would be good. But I wonder, pragmatically: How would you turn that stylized E into, for example, a necklace pendant? The lower half would have to be connected somehow.

Quote from Wikipedia

"Uncial is a majuscule script (written entirely in capital letters) commonly used from the 4th to 8th centuries AD by Latin and Greek scribes. Uncial letters were used to write Greek and Latin, as well as Gothic, and are the current style for Coptic and Nobiin."

"After the establishment of the canonical Ionian (Euclidean) Greek alphabet, new glyph variants for Ε were introduced through handwriting. In the uncial script (used for literary papyrus manuscripts in late antiquity and then in early medieval vellum codices), the "lunate" shape (ϵ) became predominant."

This variant of the Epsilon is quite symmetrical, and moon-shaped ("lunate"), alluding to the 20th / moon-based calendar. It can be modified with an "atom" dot (like this Ė character) which – to my limited knowledge – would make it quite unique. I didn't mean for it to be off to one side / asymmetrical, I just didn't know off the top of my head how to get it right in the middle using only Unicode.

Lunate Epsilon: ϵ (Unicode U+03F5)
Combining Dot Above: ̇ (Unicode U+0307)
Result: ϵ̇

I don't actually know that I would prefer that over the ⟐ symbol. The most visually pleasing icons, in my opinion, are symmetrical (left-right, up-down, both, in diagonals, …), which makes any E variant tricky.

I think, my overall favourite so far would be a rhombus ◊ (instead of an equal-angle diamond ◇), with a dot in the middle. Any thoughts on that?

Quote from Julia

This seems to imply getting agreement before actual usage, and I don't think that's how it works. Symbols like these are adopted and used without asking for universal agreement, let alone permission, and they either make it or they don't.

Regarding the use of the symbol of the cross: "Before the 4th century AD, multiple Christian symbols were used, including the fish (Ichthys), the anchor, the ship, and the Chi Rho. These symbols were often found in catacombs and other early Christian art. The cross itself wasn't a prominent symbol until later, with the main focus on symbols like the fish which represented Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior. Christians were initially hesitant to openly display the cross due to fear of ridicule and persecution from the Roman authorities. Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity in the 4th century was a major turning point. He promoted the cross as a symbol of the faith and even used it in his battle banners. The Edict of Milan in 313 legalized Christianity, paving the way for the open display and celebration of the cross." Source: Google search.

Quote from Julia

Symbols like these are adopted and used without asking for universal agreement, let alone permission, and they either make it or they don't. As such, the process is an evolutionary trial & error cycle through the court of public opinion, until something just happens to be found that clicks with enough of a majority to catch on. So the trick, in my opinion, is not to make the entire world agree. It should be enough if we can come to reasonable level of agreement amongst each other, and then just try and see what happens.

Well said, Kalosyni , kudos!

I'm reminded of the Christian fish:

Ichthys - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

which appears to have been used even earlier than the cross, fell out of popular use, then roared back onto the backs of cars in the 1970s.

Quote from Julia

I think the four letters "20er" spelled out are already too much writing to make for a good logo / symbol / …

Agreed. I really like it as a graphic or as say a team logo when we have a softball team. As an overall symbol, agree with you.

Quote from Julia

lunate Epsilon: ϵ (Unicode U+03F5)
Combining Dot Above: ̇ (Unicode U+0307)
Result:ϵ̇

I can't endorse that dotted lunate epsilon. It has the same issue you raised with the symbolized E with the detached top line as to necklace, etc.

Generally, I don't like letters or numbers to be used as symbols. There's too much room for misinterpretion, jokes, etc. I'm not even sure I fully endorse the pig as a symbol. Is Horace the only textual evidence for that? I know the statue is from Herculaneum. That said, I do have a small plastic piglet on my desk at work:

Pig

OINK OINK! Like any pig, our Pig from schleich® FARM WORLD has a great sense of smell thanks to its powerful nose. The pink hoofed animal likes using it to…

us.schleich-s.com

I don't have a firm proposal, but I'm intrigued by the conversation.

Thinking out loud (fully realizing I just said no letters )

Φ or Φ - Greek phi

• = Philosophy
• Two stylized Ps back to back = Pleasure and Pain

Some mashup of Greek H eta hedone "pleasure" and Α alpha algos "pain"?

Pig? Stylized pig? Think Christian fish?

Like I said, just thinking out loud.