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Cassius
June 15, 2026 at 5:08 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
This aspect of the "idealist" position as cited by Bryan reminds me to clarify: I think Epicurus' position on divinity served important goal-identifying and psychological purposes for Epicurus (which is a positive use of the term ideal), just as… -
Bryan
June 15, 2026 at 4:19 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
We have the category "pending (προσμένον)" for things which are simultaneously not attested (μὴ ἐπιμαρτυρούμενον) and not contested (μὴ ἀντιμαρτυρούμενον), because indeed in that case there is no evidence either way.
We also have "pending" for… -
Pacatus
June 15, 2026 at 2:32 PM Replied to the thread $toicism, Broicism, and stoicisM.PostReminds a bit of Emily Austin’s questioning whether modern Stoics are actually – Stoics. (Though she wasn’t as harsh as Bates.) -
Pacatus
June 15, 2026 at 2:26 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostOne might take Epicurus’ arguments for a “realist” view of the gods as suggestive, rather than “dogmatic.” I don’t know if that’s too much of a wrenching of what he said, but he was, in part, deconstructing any sort of Platonic idealism throughout.
For… -
Pacatus
June 15, 2026 at 1:19 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
Just as an aside: the Pyrrhonians would not call those “false” but indeterminate or undecidable (ἀνεπίκριτα). -
DaveT
June 15, 2026 at 12:02 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostI appreciate all the comments made on my original questions and observations. I often look for similarities in teachings before and after Epicurus.
I hope this doesn't stir up a hornets nest from this thread (which everyone is probably fatigued over) But,… -
Titus
June 15, 2026 at 11:57 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
In that moment where we start talking about something that is outside of our sphere of influence, it becomes symbolic. I agree that they are very alien because they master those both points of life being limited and of emotional imperfection, due to… -
TauPhi
June 15, 2026 at 11:46 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
Spledid idea! Almost as good as appointing Lucifer as a gatekeeper at St. Peter's gates of heaven. It should be fine. -
Cassius
June 15, 2026 at 11:37 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
To supplement my brilliant humor, I am hoping that some of our "idealists" like Don will weigh in on the objection Tau Phi is raising to what Titus has suggested. I personally don't consider that the two camps on this topic are really in conflict,… -
Cassius
June 15, 2026 at 11:08 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
If this keeps up we're going to have to appoint Tau Phi as Moderator-Pro-Tem of the SUAVITY forum!
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TauPhi
June 15, 2026 at 10:59 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
I do differ in some areas but I also love Epicurean philosophy. It has benefited my life enormously and it still does. Even if I don't accept the philosophy in its entirety, I agree with most of it. It may look sometimes that I'm picking a fight but I… -
Cassius
June 15, 2026 at 9:20 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostI meant to say this previously but I believe I got cut short of time and deleted it.
In general I often find it surprising how much I agree with Tau Phi's perspective on Epicurean philosophy despite the fact that he is very clear that he differs with… -
Cassius
June 15, 2026 at 8:16 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostOn each of these points I agree with Titus and completely see it differently from Tau Phi. We are not talking idealism, we are talking about recognizing scales of measure just as we would see longer living as better than shorter living. There's no… -
TauPhi
June 15, 2026 at 6:52 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostHere are my personal opinions on all three points. Please mind they are just that - personal opinions. Nothing else but food for thought, if someone is interested in reading them.
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Ultimate excellence does not exist. It's nothing more but a turn into… -
Titus
June 15, 2026 at 4:25 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
I would argue that the Epicurean theory on the Gods is still important, independent from what one thinks of the possibility of receiving images or eidolas:
1.) As Patrikios said, the Gods symbolise ultimate excellence. They are something to orientate… -
Cassius
June 14, 2026 at 10:18 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostWe've discussed many of these issues many times in many plaves, but Just for the sake of having fun with the last post here is an example of how I would push back at the contention that Epicurean physics is obsolete. Ironically I would also expect that… -
Cassius
June 14, 2026 at 9:15 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
Fully understood and no problem. And we will go merrily along our way because I know you understand that I disagree with every significant statement of fact you have made in that post as to Epicurus having been "proven wrong." Out terminology is not… -
TauPhi
June 14, 2026 at 8:28 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
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Both statements are true for Epicurus but are not true from modern perspective. We no longer can equate atomic theory and the theory of eidolas. The atomic theory still stands nowadays, the theory of eidolas has been proven to be incorrect.… -
Cassius
June 14, 2026 at 7:39 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostI just saw what Patrikios wrote and i agree with it - seems consistent with what Joshua said.
Beyond that I want to go further, because I think there's a direct analogy between the problem we face today in explaining Epicurus' views of the gods and the… -
Patrikios
June 14, 2026 at 6:20 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post -
Cassius
June 14, 2026 at 5:46 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
He could believe in them in exactly the same way he believes in atoms, which he has also never perceived with his five senses.
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Again, he had the same level of evidence he had as to atoms - all inference, no direct evidence - yet fully "believed" in… -
DaveT
June 14, 2026 at 5:14 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostI don't know if anyone else will chime in, so thank you Cassius . It's so sad that the extent fragments, the letters, and Lucretius are all we have to resolve the issue of how he could believe in gods that neither he or anyone had ever sensed with the… -
Bryan
PostJune 14, 2026 at 3:45 PM Raphael Raul
I wanted to follow up on the reference to 30,000 in Empedocles. The line, which is attributed to Empedocles by Plutarch and Hippolytus of Rome, is:
“it [i.e., a fallen daimon/spirit] has wandered away from the blessed ones for three times… -
Cassius
ThreadJune 14, 2026 at 1:37 PM This week we will continue around line 734 discussing ideas of what the universe is fundamentally made.
https://epicurustoday.com/sbslucretius/#1-734 -
Don
June 14, 2026 at 10:37 AM Posted the thread $toicism, Broicism, and stoicisM.Threadhttps://open.substack.com/pub/ataraxiaor…e-stoicism-scam
A Pyrrhonist on Substack joins in the "Stoics aren't Stoics" debate head-on in some blunt language.
I do think a number of items in his list are either Epicurean in source or Epicurean in practice.
I… -
Kalosyni
June 14, 2026 at 8:00 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.Post
Happy Birthday! Buck23 -
Cassius
June 14, 2026 at 4:05 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to Buck23! Learn more about Buck23 and say happy birthday on Buck23's timeline: Buck23 -
Joshua
June 13, 2026 at 1:47 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
I have my own questions on this topic, DaveT , but I have come to an understanding that may be helpful on this one.
Here is Bailey's translation of the text from the Letter to Menoikeus:
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Regarding the sentence I've underlined, I no longer read… -
Cassius
June 13, 2026 at 1:14 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
At least as for me, I don't mean to say that Epicurus believed in the "Greek Gods." He may have spoken loosely at times about one or another of them, but I interpret him as never straying from the point that "gods as a class" exist - not that any… -
DaveT
June 13, 2026 at 12:06 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post -
Cassius
June 13, 2026 at 11:55 AM Replied to the thread Stoic After-school Programs??.PostFrom the article:
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In other words, he stopped teaching Stoicism, and started teaching modern psychology. He detached his teaching from any evaluation as to whether happiness is or should be the goal of life, whether there is eternal punishment after… -
Kalosyni
June 13, 2026 at 11:28 AM Replied to the thread Stoic After-school Programs??.PostVery interesting! ...
[…] -
Don
June 13, 2026 at 11:14 AM Posted the thread Stoic After-school Programs??.Threadhttps://open.substack.com/pub/stoicismto…toic-philosophy
By Zeus! With the fact that modern Stoics are actually much more Epicurean than they like to admit, these kinds of evangelism/marketing are such missed opportunities. Granted, the "Stoics" have a… -
Cassius
June 13, 2026 at 6:21 AM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
So Bryan correct me if I am wrong here but this is how the entire discussion of prolepsis refutes what Plato had taught about ideal forms/reincarnation.
It is an obvious point that you can never investigate, refute, or judge whether you are correct… -
Bryan
June 12, 2026 at 11:20 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…]
Yes, a prolepsis is an experience, but not a process of thought.
The prolepseis are the direct experiences we have when we think of something.
Anybody who uses the words “god” or “water” or “minotaur” has a sense of what they are talking… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 8:40 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post"At first I thought, well he never experienced a god, so how could he say he knows of them from prolepsis."
This sounds to me as though you are not considering a prolepsis to be an experience. That's an issue we talk about regularly without much to work… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 8:35 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostJust to be clear it looks like the outside box is you talking DaveT e, and not quoting Titus? I can fix that if you can't but I don't want to change it if indeed that outside box is somehow from Titus. -
DaveT
June 12, 2026 at 8:28 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.Post[…] -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 7:25 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostAlso Titus this chat exchange has me thinking about something that I think needs to be a focus of the forum in the future - and it's an aspect of prolepsis.
Taken separately, I think the data in the chat you presented is largely correct. As I said it's… -
Cassius
ThreadJune 12, 2026 at 5:07 PM Sunday June 14, 2026 - Zoom Discussion 12:30 PM EST - Lucretius Book Review - Lucretius Book 1 - 645 - The Competitor Theories As To What Things Are Made Of- Welcome and news / requests for new topics. We'll continue to deal with individual topics as they
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Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 4:57 PM Posted the thread Episode 338 - EATAQ20 - Not Yet Released.ThreadWelcome to Episode 338 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the… -
Bryan
June 12, 2026 at 4:05 PM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.PostPlutarch also records a long list of mocking epithets. In an effort to explain the apparent antagonism between the epithets and VS79, I think we can look at:
ΚΔ 39 "He who has best composed himself regarding his lack of confidence from external… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 3:28 PM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.PostI would say analysis of this issue goes right along with analysis of the issue of the proper aspects of anger as referenced by Philodemus. If we don't have the integrity and presence of mind to feel righteous anger when ourselves or especially our… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 3:22 PM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.Post[…]
That's why we need this discussion. It is clearly established in the texts that Epicurus and other Epicureans did exactly that (referred to philosophical opponents or at least their opinions in mocking terms). Yet Epicurus and his followers… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 3:17 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostTitus I would say that that discussion of a working theory of what Epicurus mean by prolepsis is better than what 98% of us on the forum could do if we sat down and decided to devote 20 minutes to tackling it. I am sure that most of us would also find… -
Kalosyni
June 12, 2026 at 2:36 PM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.Post[…]
I don't think that the use of mocking words against philosophical enemies is constructive, and it goes against suavity. (I like to think that Diogene Laertius got that aspect of Epicurus wrong).
Also....VS79. The man who is serene causes no disturbance… -
Titus
June 12, 2026 at 2:25 PM Replied to the thread Relationship between AI/LLMs and prolepsis.PostToday, I had a short but interesting talk with Chat GPT:
Titus: Is there a connection between large language models and Epicurean prolepsis? Could Epicurean prolepsis be interpreted as what LLMs are processing?
Yes, there is a surprisingly interesting… -
Pacatus
PostJune 12, 2026 at 12:58 PM I was just rereading some of Jean-Marie Guyau, The Ethics of Epicurus, and found that his second chapter is “Fundamental Pleasure: the Stomach.” (The translator notes that the French word Guyau uses – ventre – is a broader concept than “stomach;”… -
Cassius
June 12, 2026 at 12:23 PM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.PostWe very much need articles addressing the nature of "good manners" both in general and here on the forum. We know that Epicurus did not hesitate to use mocking wordss against his philosophical enemies, and we know that he strongly advised "frank speech"… -
Kalosyni
June 12, 2026 at 10:55 AM Replied to the thread Suavity - General Discussion.PostThis is interesting regarding the word "suavity" (from Google):
The shift from describing sensory or spiritual sweetness to describing human manners occurred gradually between the late 16th century and the mid-18th century, solidifying into its modern…
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