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Cassius
May 11, 2026 at 7:54 AM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
This is exactly what I think is *not* the case in terms of end result. Now I do agree that the feelings of pleasure and pain are largely "hard-wired" as we are born finding some things painful and other things pleasurable. Perhaps some modifications… -
Don
May 11, 2026 at 7:12 AM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
I would argue that everyone pursues what they believe will bring them pleasure, will provide happiness. It's just that sometimes - often - we fool ourselves into pursuing those things that will not in reality bring pleasure in the long run.
[…]
In… -
Cassius
May 11, 2026 at 4:06 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to Noddy! Learn more about Noddy and say happy birthday on Noddy's timeline: Noddy -
wbernys
May 11, 2026 at 1:24 AM Has solved the quiz Lucretius Quiz Two.Quiz -
wbernys
May 11, 2026 at 1:21 AM Has solved the quiz Lucretius Quiz One.Quiz -
Godfrey
May 11, 2026 at 12:21 AM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostAlthough I'm not saying that PD25 states this, at the moment I don't agree that everyone pursues nature's end. I for one spent years pursuing my "duty", and all it gave me was a life of misery. I would say that the consequences of using reason to… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 10:43 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostDon Good to know.
Hmm..It seems my senses were all true by interpretation was wrong and i thought we disagreed.
Someone should really make an epistemology about a distinction between senses and opinion. -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 10:34 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostYes. I agree with that. -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 10:31 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
The interpretation of PD25 is what I'm referring to.
I think it's an affirmation of psychological hedonism, that you will always pursue nature's end, freedom from pain and pleasure, and if you say your doing something different, your words and your… -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 10:25 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
I think I'm becoming confused (the "joys" of posting vs having a conversation).
Could you say one more time what is "this interpretation"? -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 10:19 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostDon just to be clear. Do you and i agree on this inerpreation. I thought you disagreed but now it seems like you and have the same idea. Just wanna be sure. -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 10:13 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
I don't think people need to consciously see all their actions as "leading to greater pleasure for them." It's a fact, as far as I'm concerned. Pleasure is the telos, summum bonum, the end to which all actions and decisions ultimately end. This PD is… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 9:23 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
Epicurus does explicitly say that "some things happen by necessity", and i think a necessary aversion to pain or pursuit of pleasure might just be a necessary thing for Epicurus. This was part of his "cradle argument" is that we, by nature, delight in… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 9:15 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
The main with this translation (and interpretation) that Woolf points out, and i find convincing, is that the Greek apparently says "our words" (λόγοις), and under this interpretation why would "your thoughts and your actions will not be… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 8:56 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
Sure this comes from Cooper's 1999 book called Reason and Emotion: Essays on Ancient Moral Psychology and is in the chapter on Pleasure and Desire in Epicurus.
Unfortunately i was able to access it only as a student through my school's library and… -
Cassius
May 10, 2026 at 8:11 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostYeah the very fact that you are fleeing/escaping or pursuing/chasing indicates to me that what you're doing is exercising free will, and I don't see how that is compatible with implying that everything everyone does is "necessarily' because they see it… -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 7:55 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostPD25 If at all critical times you do not connect each of your actions to the natural goal of life, but instead turn too soon to some other kind of goal in thinking whether to avoid or pursue something, then your thoughts and your actions will not be in… -
Cassius
May 10, 2026 at 7:51 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).PostHa - I see this earlier thread from you on the same subject --- one thing I do agree with is that this is an interesting issue to flesh out
Do you believe in psychological hedonism/egoism? Any philosophers on this? -
Cassius
May 10, 2026 at 7:50 PM Replied to the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).Post[…]
Do you have a link to what you are referring to here? I would like to see the argument he is advocating.
[…]
I generally come down on the other side of this question because I think there is a major issue of determinism to consider here. I would… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 6:20 PM Posted the thread PD 25 meaning? by Woolf (2004).ThreadHi all. Principal Doctrine 25 is a notoriously hard doctrine to understand. This is really only the Principal Doctrine i have trouble understanding and as a good Epicurean i want to understand it.
Cooper (1999) thinks it is evidence that Epicurus is not a… -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 2:54 PM Replied to the thread Considering The Feelings (Pleasure and Pain) and Prolepsis/Anticipations as Sensations.Post[…]
LOL I've been subscribed to ologies for years. I don't listen to all episodes, but I'll regularly scan through the titles. -
Pacatus
May 10, 2026 at 2:09 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostFor anyone interested, MFS also has an autobiography – titled Martin the Epicurean – that was just released by Amazon on April 15th. Here is the link:
https://www.amazon.com/Martin-Epicure…xt%2C330&sr=1-1 -
DaveT
May 10, 2026 at 1:41 PM Replied to the thread Considering The Feelings (Pleasure and Pain) and Prolepsis/Anticipations as Sensations.Post[…]
Thanks. I read the transcript. Just curious, as a "grey hair" how did you come across this podcast? -
Joshua
May 10, 2026 at 11:35 AM Replied to the thread Episode 333 - EATAQ 15 - Not Yet Recorded.PostThanks to Don for finding Martin Ferguson Smith's recent and updated work on his findings at the archaeological site at Oinoanda:
https://www.tabedizioni.it/web/content/462840
As I mentioned in the recording, it isn't always easy to keep up with fresh… -
wbernys
May 10, 2026 at 8:15 AM Posted the thread Wore a ring of Epicurus to graduation..Thread -
Don
May 10, 2026 at 8:00 AM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.Post[…]
"States" isn't a bad choice as it tries to convey a stable condition rather than something in flux, something moving. I will say I don't like "static" as that to me conveys ossification and rigidity. In the past, I've written "It comes from… -
Titus
May 10, 2026 at 5:17 AM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.Post[…]
Lol, I read "was" instead of "wasn't"
. This explains your emphasis on political/societal topics. On the other side, your text is explicitly at the beginning and in the middle part full of Epicurean thought. This might sound too doctrinal or even… -
Titus
May 10, 2026 at 4:04 AM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.Post[…]
Do you have a recommendation how to translate this section smoothly where Ferguson instead gives "states"? (Let us first discuss states...) -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 10:34 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostYes, Titus . Agreed.
For the record, here's the Greek for that section emphasis added):
[…]
I want to note that where Martin Ferguson Smith gives "states" in the translation, the Greek is κατασ̣τήμασι and καταστημάτων, that is… -
Eikadistes
May 9, 2026 at 8:38 PM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.Post[…]
Not even climate change and vaccine distribution?
"...irrevocable changes to the Earth’s biosphere will lead to the displacement of 2 billion human beings and cause the deaths of hundreds of millions more..."
I feel like that one, in particular, is… -
Eikadistes
May 9, 2026 at 8:24 PM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.Post[…]
No doubt, "This wasn't originally intended for an explicitly Epicurean audience".
The Humanist wasn't interested so now I'm sharing it here.
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Titus
May 9, 2026 at 8:08 PM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.PostGreat work! I especially like your approach of rendering names as they were spoken in antiquity e.g. Epicurus as Epíkouros. This adds authority to your text.
Some criticism:
[…]
I appreciate how your text ends. Conversely, in the paragraphs above you dive… -
Bryan
May 9, 2026 at 6:22 PM Replied to the thread Considering The Feelings (Pleasure and Pain) and Prolepsis/Anticipations as Sensations.PostI noticed that De Rerum Natura (2.434) speaks directly to the point of pain and pleasure being sensations. TauPhi I think this explains Epicurus' conflation of "sense as a faculty with sense as an activity."
Touch, indeed – Touch, by the holy powers… -
Titus
May 9, 2026 at 5:14 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostAside from the introductory part where Diogenes declares his (noble) motifs, this is the section I personally like the most:
Let us first discuss states, keeping an eye on the point that, when the emotions which disturb the soul are removed, those which… -
TauPhi
May 9, 2026 at 3:52 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostThank you, Don -
Cassius
ThreadMay 9, 2026 at 2:44 PM This week we continue on into properties and qualities of bodies and other aspects of emergence.
https://handbook.epicureanfriends.com/sbslucretius/#1-449 -
Cassius
May 9, 2026 at 2:40 PM Replied to the thread Episode 333 - EATAQ 15 - Not Yet Recorded.PostDraft Outline of this episode, We ourselves should be so lucky as to get half of this in, but the outline may be helpful to others and for the next several weeks:
Podcast Outline: Cicero Academic Questions Book 2, Sections 8-9Opening Frame (5-10 minutes)
… -
Cassius
May 9, 2026 at 2:25 PM Posted the thread Episode 333 - EATAQ 15 - Not Yet Recorded.ThreadWelcome to Episode 333 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the… -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 12:36 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostI'm curious to compare the arrangement of the text in the book to this:
https://papyri.info/dclp/865216?ro…tem+asc&p=0&t=0 -
Bryan
May 9, 2026 at 12:15 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostThank you!
I did not realize that the island Smith lives on has a population of 15 to 30 people. Apparently, there is not even one store on the island. I wonder how he handles getting groceries. -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 12:09 PM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.Post[…]
That's what I like about this March 2026 publication. It's legit from MFS himself along with his notes and intro. -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 10:07 AM Replied to the thread Sources of Texts: A Substack Bibliography.PostThe whole Untroubled Substack feed looks worthwhile to explore. I'm not sure who the author is, but he praises Emily Austin's book so
https://open.substack.com/pub/readuntrou…y-austin-living -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 9:42 AM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.PostFYI
"Fragments of Diogenes' work were discovered in 1884-1889. Further investigations were inaugurated by Martin Ferguson Smith in 1968-1973 and continued during British and German-led surveys (1974-2017). The number of known pieces of the inscription… -
Cassius
May 9, 2026 at 9:30 AM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.PostWow a lot of effort went into that - thanks Eikadistes! -
Cassius
May 9, 2026 at 9:28 AM Replied to the thread Diogenes of Oinoanda Inscription - NEW Complete Translation By MFS - March 2026.Post -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 8:43 AM Replied to the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.PostI look forward to digging into the text, but I really like the playlist/section titles! Well played! -
Eikadistes
May 9, 2026 at 8:38 AM Posted the thread Superstition Ain't the Way.ThreadThis wasn't originally intended for an explicitly Epicurean audience; the first two sections will likely be more of a review for anyone here. You may find the third part useful, which contains a comprehensive look at Epicurean attitudes toward death and… -
Don
ThreadMay 9, 2026 at 7:56 AM -
Don
May 9, 2026 at 7:52 AM Posted the thread Sources of Texts: A Substack Bibliography.Threadhttps://open.substack.com/pub/readuntrou…primary-sources
I came across this Substack article and it looked generally like a good list of sources, including...
https://www.tabedizioni.it/shop/product/urbi-et-orbi-2100
"Just this year (March 2026), however,… -
Cassius
May 9, 2026 at 4:05 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to mctimkat! Learn more about mctimkat and say happy birthday on mctimkat's timeline: mctimkat
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