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  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson, to William Short, October 31, 1819
I take the liberty of observing that you are not a true disciple of our master Epicurus, in indulging the indolence to which you say you are yielding. One of his canons, you know, was that “that indulgence which prevents a greater pleasure, or produces a greater pain, is to be avoided.” Your love of repose will lead, in its progress, to a suspension of healthy exercise, a relaxation of mind, an indifference to everything around you, and finally to a debility of body, and hebetude of mind, the farthest of all things from the happiness which the well-regulated indulgences of Epicurus ensure; fortitude, you know is one of his four cardinal virtues. That teaches us to meet and surmount difficulties; not to fly from them, like cowards; and to fly, too, in vain, for they will meet and arrest us at every turn of our road. Weigh this matter well; brace yourself up....
Latest Lucretius Today Podcast
Episode 349 — "Navigating Questions of Knowledge With Ships And Heaps"
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Recent Activities

  • DaveT September 8, 2026 at 3:57 PM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    Following up with the second essay. I suppose I need help here. I started to read it, but my nose started itching. It itches when I think someone is just repeating the bogey man, average person as the typical human who doesn't understand the basic human…
  • DaveT September 8, 2026 at 3:47 PM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    Robert I appreciate your analysis; I think you're trying to find the kernel of truth that Pinsoff is using in the first essay to make his case. Yes?

    Just on that first essay, I noticed two things. He appears to be using an average of all the things he…
  • Kalosyni September 8, 2026 at 1:07 PM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    […]

    Just some free-roaming thoughts:

    Regarding habituation...Pizza...I don't think he (the author) is taking into consideration that eating pizza when genuinely hungry will almost always bring a certain amount of pleasure. Also, if a person enjoys driving…
  • Cassius September 8, 2026 at 6:39 AM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    Robert thank you for your comments there. I felt sure when I was reading through those articles that there was a point to be dealt with despite the off-putting language. Your analysis of the article seems to track what parts I did follow as I was…
  • Robert September 7, 2026 at 4:02 PM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    Matteng I found these provocative (in a good way). Have you read any of Robert Wright's books? The Moral Animal was a memorable read for me.

    I have a favorable view of evolutionary psychology and feel it has strong explanatory and predictive power.…
  • Kalosyni September 7, 2026 at 11:33 AM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    I recommend this book, for anyone interested in increasing their optimism and positivity:

    https://www.amazon.com/Positivity-Top…d/dp/0307393747
  • Kalosyni September 7, 2026 at 11:09 AM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    First off, I think that this blogger has a hidden agenda, when he uses the word "bullsh*t". And his choice of words hints that he is basically an unhappy person looking for why he isn't feeling happy in life. It makes it hard for me to want to even spend…
  • Cassius September 7, 2026 at 7:39 AM

    Replied to the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Post
    Just for what it's worth, The final paragraph of the second article:

    […]

    As with this final paragraph, my reading of both articles is mostly that they are coarse. There's no positive message here in this last word, just coarseness for the sake of…
  • Matteng September 6, 2026 at 4:35 PM

    Posted the thread Evolutionary Psychology and "Happiness".
    Thread
    Hi, there are 2 Essays I keep thinking about for a long time.

    I think it deals with a provocative critique of a naive view and approach regarding "Happiness". The whole Substack of David Pinshof seems to have the goal to be paradox and provocative but…
  • Cassius September 6, 2026 at 11:21 AM

    Replied to the thread Episode 350 - EATAQ32 - Not Yet Recorded.
    Post
    Today we are spending much of the episode discussing Patrikios' comments here:



    RE: Episode 348 - EATAQ30 - Neither Logic Nor Logos Are Shortcuts To Truth
  • Cassius September 6, 2026 at 7:16 AM

    Posted the thread Episode 350 - EATAQ32 - Not Yet Recorded.
    Thread
    Welcome to Episode 350 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the…
  • Cassius September 5, 2026 at 9:14 PM

    Replied to the thread Episode 348 - EATAQ30 - Neither Logic Nor Logos Are Shortcuts To Truth.
    Post
    […]

    Yes I think that's exactly the point, and while it seems so easy to understand that flux shouldn't cause us to turn to nihilism, it seems like on occasion that's exactly what happens.
  • Patrikios September 5, 2026 at 2:54 PM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    […]

    Godfrey ,

    Congratulations on continuing your exercise program with scheduled classes and a workout buddy. One additional way I found to stack exercise sessions into habits was to watch and follow a 15 minute Tai Chi warmup on YouTube, before…
  • Patrikios September 5, 2026 at 2:24 PM

    Replied to the thread Episode 348 - EATAQ30 - Neither Logic Nor Logos Are Shortcuts To Truth.
    Post
    Cassius , Joshua

    In episode 348, “Neither Logic Nor Logos Are Shortcuts To Truth”, I really enjoyed the discussion about finding the “truth”. You referenced the statement of Diogenes of Oenoanda, where he said that we acknowledge the flux…
  • sanantoniogarden September 5, 2026 at 11:42 AM

    Posted the thread Feelings Precede Reason/Rational Reflection.
    Thread
    https://www.noemamag.com/the-tantalizin…s-in-the-brain/

    Not sure if this article was shared previously but, to my eye, it seems there are many overlapping Epicurean points to be made here
  • Robert September 5, 2026 at 11:05 AM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    Cassius -Yes, I think you're likely correct. Erasmus and so on were intelligent, well-read, and rational people, and thus had a motive for fashioning an intelligent, well-read, and rational Christianity.

    For a time, this approach would also have served…
  • Godfrey September 4, 2026 at 8:32 PM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    Kalosyni So far my new regimen is going well. It's only been about six weeks, but I've replaced my usual solo workouts with a couple of different exercise classes, each a couple of times per week. I've also got a workout buddy (who happens to be my…
  • Martin September 4, 2026 at 12:15 PM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    Concentration during exercising at the gym is a must at stations where lack of concentration constitutes a safety hazard, e.g. when working out with heavy weights or when making movements close to others in a densely packed gym.
    On the other hand,…
  • Kalosyni September 4, 2026 at 10:44 AM

    Replied to the thread Good General Reference Post Contrasting Buddhism with Epicurus.
    Post
    From the article in post 14:

    […]

    Buddhism says life is suffering, but here the author of the article is saying something that really prompts me to contemplate more: the idea that humans are hooked on obsession over suffering. And related to that then…
  • Kalosyni September 4, 2026 at 10:29 AM

    Replied to the thread Good General Reference Post Contrasting Buddhism with Epicurus.
    Post
    Thank you, Matteng ...he mentions Epicurus!

    Here are some quotes from the article:

    […]

    For the third bullet-point I would bring up a comparison to the the Letter of Menoeceus about "not the pleasures of the profligate"...and more pains than pleasures.

    […]…
  • Kalosyni September 4, 2026 at 8:37 AM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    Matteng My hunch is that for an Epicurean the "pain" isn't quite as painful compared to the Stoic, since there is an anticipation on the future well-being and pleasure that will result. The Epicurean is sensitive to the body and isn't in competition…
  • Matteng September 3, 2026 at 4:30 PM

    Replied to the thread Understanding Confirmation Bias.
    Post
    I think he would emphasize to reflect and compare with sensation/evidence/facts even when it pains. Clear conceptions give more sustainable Pleasure.

    VS46. Let us utterly drive from us our bad habits, as if they were evil men who have long done us great …
  • Matteng September 3, 2026 at 4:20 PM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    Thank you Kalosyni  
    It’s great that you’re bringing up topics related to personal development. I feel that often gets lost when defending the idea that pleasure—not virtue—is the goal. Yet virtue (which often means choosing pain) is the most…
  • Cassius September 3, 2026 at 1:11 PM

    Replied to the thread Episode 349 - EATAQ31 - Navigating Questions of Knowledge With Ships and Heaps.
    Post
    Lucretius Today Podcast Episode 349 is now available: "Navigating Questions of Knowledge With Ships And Heaps”



    [media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/74871778/media
  • Matteng September 3, 2026 at 12:27 PM

    Replied to the thread Good General Reference Post Contrasting Buddhism with Epicurus.
    Post
    Today I recognized some similiarities by this Essay


    https://bernisdharma.substack.com/p/early-buddhi…&utm_medium=ios
  • Kalosyni September 3, 2026 at 9:32 AM

    Posted the thread Understanding Confirmation Bias.
    Thread
    What would Epicurus think about how "confirmation bias" describes our underlying tendency to notice, focus on, and give greater credence to evidence that aligns with our existing beliefs.

    […]



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
  • Kalosyni September 3, 2026 at 8:41 AM

    Replied to the thread Good General Reference Post Contrasting Buddhism with Epicurus.
    Post
    Early schools of Buddhism would have been in agreement with Epicurean atomism.

    Here is an overview, with regard to the material existence of things:

    In Buddhist philosophy, the question of whether matter exists is traditionally broken down using four main…
  • Cassius September 3, 2026 at 8:36 AM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    Or are they more Christians who understand the weakness of their own logic using Epicurus' more compelling logic for cover?

    This is where it all comes back to Diogenes of Oinoanda's point - what IS happiness? If you redefine the meaning of pleasure…
  • Robert September 2, 2026 at 11:16 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    Christian ataraxia, eh? ^^Yes, very intrigued by this text--and thank you for extricating that crucial passage. I've only just skimmed the rest at this point, but I notice that our buddy Hedonius starts off by rejecting Stoicism and the Peripatetics…
  • Cassius September 2, 2026 at 8:31 AM

    Replied to the thread Welcome EpicuriousDavid!.
    Post
    No specific discussions come to mind at the moment. I know we've mentioned many times that in regard to Menoeceus it makes a big difference that the recipient would have been a student who understood the basics, and therefore did not need to have EVERY…
  • Julia September 2, 2026 at 7:41 AM

    Commented on the image Epicurus Teaching Natural Physics.
    Comment (Image/Video)
    Corresponding excerpt from Eikadistes' translation on twentiers.com:


    Nothing from Nothing

    It is necessary to understand these [conjectures] were already determined on account of the unseen: first indeed, that nothing is being generated out of that which is…
  • EpicuriousDavid September 2, 2026 at 12:51 AM

    Replied to the thread Welcome EpicuriousDavid!.
    Post
    Is there a discussion anywhere about the mode in which the letters were composed?

    To elaborate, my understanding is that letters at the time would be written as a normal letter or a ‘letter’ really intended for a broader audience distribution,…
  • Godfrey September 1, 2026 at 11:28 PM

    Replied to the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Post
    Thanks Kalosyni , this is timely (no pun intended). I've recently amped up my exercise regimen and this is helpful for thinking through how best to persist through my growing pains in order to maximize my resulting pleasures :thumbup:
  • Joshua September 1, 2026 at 6:10 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    Robert , you might be interested in a dialogue by Desiderius Erasmus called The Epicurean. That's not a great version of the text to read from, but unfortunately I'm not at home at the moment. Here's a seminal passage from a cleaner text:

    […]

    Edit to…
  • SillyApe September 1, 2026 at 11:39 AM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    This is a major problem with religious beliefs in general: They start from abstract assumptions first, so you can fit anything into them, even if it sounds contradictory.

    For example, I live in a highly religious country. When something bad happens,…
  • Kalosyni September 1, 2026 at 10:00 AM

    Posted the thread How SMART Fitness Goals Keep You On Track.
    Thread
    Exercise increases and maintains health and well-being, but we need to have goals and take action:

    Here is an article excerpt:

    […]

    Read the full article:

    https://health.clevelandclinic.org/smart-fitness-goals

    *******

    Letter to Menoeceus says: "And for this…
  • Kalosyni September 1, 2026 at 8:21 AM

    Uploaded the image Epicurus Teaching Natural Physics.
    Image/Video
    Epicurus Teaching Natural Physics
  • DaveT August 31, 2026 at 8:08 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    They've been working on that since the Islamic scholars translated Plato and Aristotle from Greek into Latin. I don't see how they've succeeded in rationalizing their belief system in any way except for the social justice work they've done as a…
  • Robert August 31, 2026 at 6:20 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    At least from what I've seen, Christianity has this really odd wrinkle. On the one hand, God is perfectly good, without fault, and blessed--In Greek Orthodoxy, the word μακάρ is used, just as it is in Epicureanism (I have wondered if they stole…
  • Robert August 31, 2026 at 5:59 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    Your point here reminds me of Lucretius's concern that inadequate understanding of the cosmos could lead some people to lapse back into superstition. (Book V, 65-91). In fact, in the light of what you've just written here, I can understand better why…
  • Cassius August 31, 2026 at 10:27 AM

    Posted the thread New Time Line Of Epicurean History By Twentiers.
    Thread
    I've just learned of this new time line published at the Twentiers website, and it looks very good.

    https://twentiers.com/2026/08/25/timeline-of-epicurus/



    PS - I realize that we have had several threads i the past about Time Lines, but they are not easy to…
  • Kalosyni August 31, 2026 at 9:30 AM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    Regarding DeWitt's ideas, this may just be a "coincidence" of ideas, and not an actuality of there being a particular source. The only "blessed and incorruptible God" within Christianity would be in the Unitarian Universalist movement. Pretty sure…
  • Cassius August 31, 2026 at 5:03 AM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    Have you also read his "St Paul And Epicurus"?

    […]

    I certainly agree I can see that that would be attractive to pursue - if it were true. I agree that what you're talking about probably happened to a degree, but like Lucian mentions in Alexander the…
  • Robert August 30, 2026 at 9:18 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    That's a great point you raise about Epicurus's view of hard determinism. Wonder if we can relate this also to his participatory attitude with regard to religious ceremonies.

    The question interests me for a couple reasons. One is that I'm curious about…
  • Cassius August 29, 2026 at 4:33 PM

    Posted the thread Episode 349 - EATAQ31 - Navigating Questions of Knowledge With Ships and Heaps.
    Thread
    Welcome to Episode 349 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the most complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the…
  • Cassius August 29, 2026 at 3:59 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    […]

    No doubt but you are right - it is certainly pleasurable to think you are going to live forever, and that is a major attraction of religion. And I suspect this would be why Epicurus suggested it would be better to live by a false religion than by a…
  • Robert August 29, 2026 at 3:17 PM

    Replied to the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Post
    Enjoyed this. Having recently finished reading Arenson, I appreciate how you wove her survey of Plato-Aristotle-Epicurus into your discussion. Since, as you point out, DeWitt's book is nearing its centenary, adding the more recent contributions of…
  • Cassius August 28, 2026 at 6:15 PM

    Posted the thread Discussion of Article - "Epicurus And The Pleasure Of Rebelling Against Plato".
    Thread
    This thread is for discussion of the article:

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/article/86/
  • Cassius August 28, 2026 at 6:14 PM

    Wrote the article Epicurus and the Pleasure of Rebelling Against Plato.
    Article

    Plato as the Mainstream

    Say the word “pleasure” in connection with Epicurus and many people picture the same narrow thing: If they have a positive outlook on pleasure, they think of a good meal, a warm bath, a moment of bodily comfort. If they have a negative outlook on pleasure, they think of conspicuous consumption, self-indulgence, and luxurious pampering. Rarely today is “pleasure” the first word associated with art, science, literature, exploration, or human achievement.

    This bipolar…
  • Cassius August 28, 2026 at 3:32 PM

    Replied to the thread Episode 348 - EATAQ30 - Neither Logic Nor Logos Are Shortcuts To Truth.
    Post
    Summary:

    Continuing Book Two of Cicero's Academic Questions, Cassius and Joshua close out Section 14, where Lucullus wraps up his summary of the Stoic case by taking a final swipe at Epicurus: that even Epicurus, who tried harder than anyone to rescue…

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