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Eikadistes
May 8, 2026 at 10:23 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.Post[…]
No doubt. Kant is typically represented as the prototype of a deontologist. Kant famously argued that stealing bread is categorically unethical, even if it's to feed a starving child. -
Eikadistes
May 8, 2026 at 10:19 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostSo long as we understand we're trying to map ancient thinkers using contemporary terminology, I'm comfortable saying that Epíkouros firmly fits within the category of consequentialism. Most philosophers we view as virtue ethicists and deontologists are… -
Kalosyni
May 8, 2026 at 10:11 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostThis could fall loosely into the category of "virtue ethics":
PD05. It is not possible to live pleasantly without living prudently, honorably, and justly, [nor again to live a life of prudence, honor, and justice] without living pleasantly. And the man… -
Kalosyni
May 8, 2026 at 10:06 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.Post[…]
I'm not familiar with the "PhilSurvey"...so I looked it up and found this:
https://philsurvey.org/
Is that what you were referring to wbernys ?
Defining those labels with plain language:
Normative ethics = standards for morality
deontology = conduct is… -
Don
May 8, 2026 at 9:57 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.Post[…]
I just searched for spit -
Cassius
May 8, 2026 at 9:14 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostThanks Don! U512 seems to be the key - with the problem of finding it being that Usener uses "honorable" and "excellence" and "noble." That makes it harder to find when I key on "beautiful," but for purposes of this particular conversation these… -
Don
May 8, 2026 at 8:55 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.Post -
Cassius
May 8, 2026 at 8:44 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostIt always irritates me when I can't find a quick reference
I have the "spit upon the beautiful" as Bailey's fragment 79, but I am not quickly finding the Usener number
https://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/lexicon/en…Uncertain-Works -
Cassius
May 8, 2026 at 8:37 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostFurther, even if you prefer the "beautiful" wording there (which I don't because of it's very Platonic ring) you can refer back to the adage that Epicurus spits upon the beautiful unless it brings pleasure.
As I understand it the Hicks version is "[135]… -
Don
May 8, 2026 at 7:20 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.Post[…]
To me, that section doesn't point to intention but rather taking an active role in ones choices and rejections versus not letting chance rule what happens to you. -
Cassius
May 8, 2026 at 7:03 AM Replied to the thread Should Epicurus be viewed as a pure consequentialist, virtue ethicist, or both?.PostI think you can find quotes such as the Diogenes of Oinonanda statement that talk about the importance of attitude, but why is attitude important? Why is virtue important? Because they bring pleasure, not as goals in themselves. So i'd push back… -
Don
May 8, 2026 at 4:21 AM Replied to the thread Innovations/Updates in Epicurus Philosophy.Post[…]
Well said. THAT for me is the most basic fundamental doctrine in Epicurus' physics. That's the foundation stone upon which fear of the gods and anxiety of punishment after death are dispelled. THAT'S the non-negotiable point for me. Epicurus fleshes… -
Don
May 8, 2026 at 3:56 AM Replied to the thread Innovations/Updates in Epicurus Philosophy.PostPD24 - Commentary and Translation of PD 24 On the 4th leg, I wanted to bring up this extended thread we had awhile ago on PD24 . It goes a little off track at the end, but the first part is on point
(Full disclosure: I have not read Hiram's essay linked… -
Adrastus
May 7, 2026 at 11:19 PM Replied to the thread Innovations/Updates in Epicurus Philosophy.Post[…]
I appreciate happening to catch this sentiment as I think it firmly extends the hand to folks like me who aren't scholarly or even particularly philosophical. I rarely read other philosophy, but I experience practices drawn from other frameworks, and… -
Don
May 7, 2026 at 10:49 PM Replied to the thread Considering The Feelings (Pleasure and Pain) and Prolepsis/Anticipations as Sensations.Posthttps://www.alieward.com/ologies/dolorology
Not sure where to post, but this ologies episode on pain was interesting, especially about its bio-psycho-social aspects of pain. Worth a listen. -
wbernys
ThreadMay 7, 2026 at 8:21 PM If any of you have seen the PhilSurvey, it asks a question about whether your normative ethics is consequentialist or virtue ethics or deontology. I think it's fair to say he's surely not deontology. But i struggle between putting him as a… -
Eikadistes
PostMay 7, 2026 at 8:50 AM I'll bet that reading assignments partially inform Barnes & Noble sales.
If you study philosophy, you'll probably be requested to purchase a copy of Thus Spake Zarathustra at some point in your education. Like we discussed in another thread, I never heard… -
Cassius
ThreadMay 7, 2026 at 6:27 AM This topic came up in our Zoom of 5/6/26 - whether the feelings and anticipations should be considered to be "sensations" or is that word only strictly applicable to the "five senses." Another way of asking the same question is to consider how parallel… -
Cassius
PostMay 6, 2026 at 12:51 PM The more I think about it I can't remember the last time I read a popular article on "What Thus Spake Zarathustra Means To Me."
Not faulting Nietzsche here - just agreeing with the basic observation that he is always being cited but few have any idea why… -
Brandenoz
PostMay 6, 2026 at 8:55 AM Those are some excellent points! -
Don
PostMay 6, 2026 at 8:18 AM […]
It's the moustache.
[…]
[…]
Agreed on those, too.
You can buy Nietzsche and have him on your bookshelf and make people think you're countercultural. -
Cassius
PostMay 6, 2026 at 8:01 AM I think a lot of the commercial appeal is 1 "Thus Spake Zarathustra" is a cool name, and (2) there's a market who want to say that they have read the philosopher who said "God is dead."
No doubt the people who are specialists or work hard to understand it… -
Brandenoz
PostMay 6, 2026 at 7:42 AM I can always find Marcus (often 3-4 versions of Meditations) and Epictetus in any bookstore so far. If Epicurus is suppressed despite being capable of offering more utility to human life, and if it is because he is disagreeable to the popular world view,… -
Cassius
PostMay 5, 2026 at 12:45 PM I think that's a very perceptive comment Btandenoz. I don't think it's the Christian element that is making those selections - more the philosophy establishment - and it seems to me it's generally possible to find Marcus Aurelius and sometimes others on… -
Cassius
May 5, 2026 at 12:41 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..PostThat's an optimistic take and I like it! Unfortunately the beating and the resulting unintelligent or "checked out" facial expression is why I think others like to use it - because that's what they like to think Epicurean philosophy means. -
Brandenoz
PostMay 5, 2026 at 10:40 AM In my local Books A Million, this was the only book on Epicureanism, which I find misleading because the author's purpose is to mislead people away from the topic. In my local Barns & Nobles, I found Lucretius but nothing else on Epicureanism. It seems… -
Don
May 5, 2026 at 6:50 AM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..Post[…]
I would agree there are better alternatives, but in some ways I like the broken one as a metaphor for Epicurus has taken a beating but he's still standing, 2,000+ years on. "Bring it on! I can take it!" -
Don
May 4, 2026 at 11:10 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..PostI found another video where the author defends Epicurus and his philosophy against a host calling Epicurus "the worst philosopher". I haven't watched it all yet, but it seems to start strong:
youtu.be/-f9rPFNzGZw?si=QehJ3fUkiwu4xkw2 -
Cassius
May 4, 2026 at 9:51 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..PostMy blood pressure started rising as soon as I saw that the opening graphic features the smashed-version Epicurus bust (which I detest when people use rather than the many perfectly-good alternate versions that are available). But I won't charge that to… -
wbernys
May 4, 2026 at 9:22 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..PostHowever he is noticeably critical about how much the modern self helped overplays the whole idea of eudaimonia versus Enjoyment or pleasure tho, which is nice. -
wbernys
May 4, 2026 at 9:20 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..Post[…]
I saw too. Nice to hear. All around a pretty good interview. Got off topic a lot though but I love how he pointed out how the Stoic worldview of virtue in of itself being good makes no sense without the logos despite modern Stoics saying otherwise.
He… -
Don
May 4, 2026 at 8:46 PM Replied to the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..PostI see the guest is coming out with a new book:
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250454256/theartofenough/ -
Eikadistes
May 4, 2026 at 8:13 PM Uploaded the image Epicurean Earth.Image/Video
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Cassius
PostMay 4, 2026 at 7:54 PM As an experiment I decided to ask for a critique of what Joshua and I stated in Episode 332. I don't plan to do this every week but this is such a dense topic, and our need for planning is so much greater, that I thought it would be helpful for Joshua… -
Patrikios
PostMay 4, 2026 at 7:21 PM […]
So, if someone does go to the Amazon webpage for this Klavan book, it is interesting to see what else is served up.
With Klavan's book, it is suggested with purchase of Epictetus Guide to Stoic Philosophy. But the lineup of books is heartening under… -
wbernys
May 4, 2026 at 6:15 PM Posted the thread Alex O'Connor made a video about us..Thread -
Cassius
PostMay 4, 2026 at 6:12 PM Episode 332 of the Lucretius Today Podcast is now available. This week our episode is entitled: "The Stoic Failure To Grasp That Judgment Never Happens In The Senses."
[media]https://www.spreaker.com/episode/71865145/media -
Cassius
PostMay 4, 2026 at 4:05 PM The issues we are discussing here are probably to some extent new to most of our regulars here. To asist in getting us up to speed I have asked for this summary from Claude, giving preference to the usual sources we consult from the Epicurean… -
Cassius
PostMay 4, 2026 at 3:16 PM Notes while editing this episode:
Around the 18:00 Minute mark Joshua repeats the Epicurean position that "Judgment never happens in the senses. Judgment happens in the mind."
This is a position on which I think most all of our regulars here on… -
Don
PostMay 4, 2026 at 7:01 AM This thread had flown under my radar, so I was curious to check out its Amazon page:
Best Sellers Rank- #318,831 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
- #543 in Ancient Greek & Roman Philosophy
- #805 in Political Philosophy (Books)
- #1,008 in Philosophy of Ethics &
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Cassius
May 4, 2026 at 4:05 AM Replied to the thread Happy Birthday General Thread.PostHappy Birthday to ProfV! Learn more about ProfV and say happy birthday on ProfV's timeline: ProfV -
Titus
PostMay 4, 2026 at 1:02 AM […]
And Klavan also adds:
"Despite what we may profess to the contrary, most of us are moved by a powerful intuition that meaning does exist, at the level of the individual human life. The moral consequences of trying to suppress or explain away this basic… -
Don
May 3, 2026 at 3:59 PM Replied to the thread Neither "ataraxia" nor "not ataraxia", but "Joy as the goal".Post[…]
Nice post. The inadequacy of translation is always going to dog us, although I usually advocate for multiple words in English to try to convey some of the nuance as opposed to using Greek untranslated.
Maybe the goal is a sweet, pleasant life after… -
Eikadistes
May 3, 2026 at 3:32 PM Replied to the thread Neither "ataraxia" nor "not ataraxia", but "Joy as the goal".Post -
Don
May 3, 2026 at 2:48 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Stas!.PostWelcome aboard -
Martin
May 3, 2026 at 1:43 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Stas!.PostWelcome Stas! -
Stas
May 3, 2026 at 1:26 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Stas!.PostI searched for information about him. Boris Nikolsky is a professor of philology. Unfortunately, he apparently wrote nothing more about Epicurus. The main topic of his scientific works is Greek playwrights. This is a page with a list of his main… -
Cassius
May 3, 2026 at 12:20 PM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Post: The Continuing Vitality of Epicurean Physics.PostDarn I have not had time to read that article. I just glanced at it and it appears pretty substantive. Maybe needs a thread of its own? If needed I'll separate it out. -
Cassius
May 3, 2026 at 12:18 PM Replied to the thread Welcome Stas!.PostStasi you might want to look at our reading list in the FAQ if you have not done so already. It will be great to have you here. One of my personal favorite articles is the one by Boris Nikolsky , who is Russian, and it would be interesting to hear… -
Don
May 3, 2026 at 10:37 AM Replied to the thread Discussion of Blog Post: The Continuing Vitality of Epicurean Physics.PostI firmly believe that "to be conscious" means to have a mind in a body.
I believe "to be conscious" needs a connection to the world outside oneself, needs the faculty of interoception, is inextricably integrated with sensation.
Are there degrees of…
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