Lucretius - Book One

Munro: MOTHER of the Aeneadae, darling of men and gods, increase-giving Venus, who beneath the gliding signs of heaven fillest with thy presence the ship-carrying sea, the corn-bearing lands, since through thee every kind of living things is conceived, rises up and beholds the light of the sun. Before thee, goddess, flee the winds, the clouds of heaven, before thee and thy advent; for thee earth, manifold in works, puts forth sweet-smelling flowers; for thee the levels of the sea do laugh and heaven propitiated shines with outspread light. For soon as the vernal aspect of day is disclosed, and the birth-favoring breeze of Favonius unbarred is blowing fresh, first the fowls of the air, O lady, show signs of thee and thy entering in, thoroughly smitten in heart by thy power. Next the wild herds bound over the glad pastures and swim the rapid rivers: in such wise each made prisoner by thy charms follows thee with desire, whither thou goest to lead it on. Yes, throughout seas and mountains and sweeping rivers and leafy homes of birds and grassy plains, striking fond love into the breasts of all thou constrainest them each after its kind to continue their races with desire.

Dunster: MOTHER of Rome, Delight of Men and Gods, Sweet Venus; who with vital power does fill the sea bearing the ships, the fruitful Earth, all things beneath the rolling signs of Heaven; for it is by Thee that creatures of every kind conceive, rise into life, and view the Sun’s bright beams. Thee, Goddess, Thee the winds avoid; the clouds fly Thee and Thy approach. With various art the Earth, for Thee, affords her sweetest flowers; for Thee the sea’s rough waves put on their smiles, and the smooth sky shines with diffused light. For when the buxom Spring leads on the year, and genial gales of western winds blow fresh, unlocked from Winter’s cold, the airy birds first feel Thee, Goddess, and express thy power. Thy active flame strikes through their very souls. And then the savage beasts, with wanton play, frisk over the cheerful fields, and swim the rapid streams. So pleased with thy sweetness, so transported by thy soft charms, all living Nature strives, with sharp desire, to follow Thee, her Guide, where Thou art pleased to lead. In short, Thy power, inspiring every breast with tender love, drives every creature on with eager heat, in seas, in mountains, in swiftest floods, in leafy forests, and in verdant plains, to propagate their kind from age to age.

Latin: Aeneadum genetrix, hominum divomque voluptas, alma Venus, caeli subter labentia signa quae mare navigerum, quae terras frugiferentis concelebras, per te quoniam genus omne animantum concipitur visitque exortum lumina solis: te, dea, te fugiunt venti, te nubila caeli adventumque tuum, tibi suavis daedala tellus summittit flores, tibi rident aequora ponti placatumque nitet diffuso lumine caelum. nam simul ac species patefactast verna diei et reserata viget genitabilis aura favoni, aeriae primum volucris te, diva, tuumque significant initum perculsae corda tua vi. inde ferae pecudes persultant pabula laeta et rapidos tranant amnis: ita capta lepore te sequitur cupide quo quamque inducere pergis. denique per maria ac montis fluviosque rapacis frondiferasque domos avium camposque virentis omnibus incutiens blandum per pectora amorem efficis ut cupide generatim saecla propagent.

Munro: Since thou then art sole mistress of the nature of things and without thee nothing rises up into the divine borders of light, nothing grows to be glad or lovely, fain would I have thee for a helpmate in writing the verses which I essay to pen on the nature of things for our own son of the Memmii, whom thou, goddess, hast willed to have no peer, rich as he ever is in every grace. Wherefore all the more, O lady, lend my lays an everliving charm.

Dunster: Since Thou, alone, doest govern Nature’s laws, and nothing, without Thee, can rise to light, without Thee nothing can look gay or lovely; I beg Thee a companion to my lays, which now I sing of Nature, and I devote to my dear Memmius, whom Thou art ever pleased, sweet Goddess, to adorn with every grace. For him, kind Deity, inspire my song, and give immortal beauty to my verse.

Latin: Quae quoniam rerum naturam sola gubernas nec sine te quicquam dias in luminis oras exoritur neque fit laetum neque amabile quicquam, te sociam studeo scribendis versibus esse, quos ego de rerum natura pangere conor Memmiadae nostro, quem tu, dea, tempore in omni omnibus ornatum voluisti excellere rebus.

Munro: Cause meanwhile the savage works of war to be lulled to rest throughout all seas and lands; for thou alone canst bless mankind with calm peace, seeing that Mavors lord of battle controls the savage works of war, Mavors who often flings himself into thy lap quite vanquished by the never-healing wound of love; and then with upturned face and shapely neck thrown back feeds with love his greedy sight gazing, goddess, open-mouthed on thee; and as backward he reclines, his breath stays hanging on thy lips While then, lady, he is reposing on thy holy body, shed thyself about him and above, and pour from thy lips sweet discourse, asking, glorious dame, gentle peace for the Romans. For neither can we in our country’s day of trouble with untroubled mind think only of our work, nor can the illustrious offset of Memmius in times like these be wanting to the general weal.

Dunster: Meantime, the bloody tumults of the war, by sea and land, compose, and lay asleep. For Thou, alone, mankind, with quiet peace, canst bless; because it is Mars Armipotent that rules the bloody tumults of the war, and He, by everlasting pains of love, bound fast, tastes in Thy lap most sweet repose, turns back his smooth long neck, and views thy charms, and greedily sucks love at both his eyes. Supinely, as he rests, his very soul hangs on thy lips. This God, dissolved in ease, in the soft moments when thy heavenly limbs cling round him, melting with eloquence, caress, great Goddess, and implore a peace for Rome. For neither can I write with cheerful strains, in times so sad, nor can the noble House of Memmius desert the common good in such distress of things. The hours you spare, apply with close attention to my verse, and, free from care, receive true reason’s rules; nor these my gifts, prepared with faithful pains, reject with scorn before they are understood.

Latin: Quo magis aeternum da dictis, diva, leporem. effice ut interea fera moenera militiai per maria ac terras omnis sopita quiescant; nam tu sola potes tranquilla pace iuvare mortalis, quoniam belli fera moenera Mavors armipotens regit, in gremium qui saepe tuum se reiicit aeterno devictus vulnere amoris, atque ita suspiciens tereti cervice reposta pascit amore avidos inhians in te, dea, visus eque tuo pendet resupini spiritus ore. hunc tu, diva, tuo recubantem corpore sancto circum fusa super, suavis ex ore loquellas funde petens placidam Romanis, incluta, pacem; nam neque nos agere hoc patriai tempore iniquo possumus aequo animo nec Memmi clara propago talibus in rebus communi desse saluti.

Munro: For what remains to tell, apply to true reason un-busied ears and a keen mind withdrawn from cares, lest my gifts set out for you with steadfast zeal you abandon with disdain, before they are understood. For I will essay to discourse to you of the most high system of heaven and the gods and will open up the first beginnings of things, out of which nature gives birth to all things and increase and nourishment, and into which nature likewise dissolves them back after their destruction. These we are accustomed in explaining their reason to call matter and begetting bodies of things and to name seeds of things and also to tern first bodies, because from them as first elements all things are.

Dunster: For I begin to write of lofty themes, of Gods, and of the motions of the sky, the rise of things, how all things Nature forms, and how they grow, and to perfection rise, and into what, by the same Nature’s laws, those things resolve and die; which as I write I call by various names; sometimes it is matter, or the first principles, or seeds of things, or first of bodies, whence all else proceed. For the whole nature of the Gods must spend an Immortality in softest peace, removed from our affairs, and separated by distance infinite; from sorrow free; secure from danger; in its own happiness sufficient, and nothing of ours can want, is neither pleased with good, nor vexed with evil.

Latin: Omnis enim per se divum natura necessest immortali aevo summa cum pace fruatur semota ab nostris rebus seiunctaque longe; nam privata dolore omni, privata periclis, ipsa suis pollens opibus, nihil indiga nostri, nec bene promeritis capitur nec tangitur ira.

Munro: When human life to view lay foully prostrate upon earth crushed down under the weight of religion, who showed her head from the quarters of heaven with hideous aspect lowering upon mortals, a man of Greece ventured first to lift up his mortal eyes to her face and first to withstand her to her face. Him neither story of gods nor thunderbolts nor heaven with threatening roar could quell: they only chafed the more the eager courage of his soul, filling him with desire to be the first to burst the fast bars of nature’s portals. Therefore the living force of his soul gained the day: on he passed far beyond the flaming walls of the world and traversed throughout in mind and spirit the immeasurable universe; whence he returns a conqueror to tell us what can, what cannot come into being; in short on what principle each thing has its powers defined, its deep-set boundary mark. Therefore religion is put underfoot and trampled upon in turn; us his victory brings level with heaven.

Dunster: Indeed mankind, in wretched bondage held, lay groveling on the ground, galled with the yoke of what is called Religion; from the sky this tyrant shewed her head, and with grim looks hung over us, poor mortals, here below; until a man of Greece, with steady eyes, dared look her in the face, and first opposed her power. Him not the fame of Gods, nor thunder’s roar, kept back, nor threatening tumults of the sky; but still the more they roused the active virtue of his aspiring soul, as he pressed forward, first to break through Nature's scanty bounds. His mind’s quick force prevailed; and so he passed by far the flaming limits of this world, and wandered with his comprehensive soul over all the mighty space; from thence returned, triumphant; told us what things may have a being, and what cannot; and how a finite power is fixed to each; a bound it cannot break. And so Religion, which we feared before, by him subdued, we tread upon in turn. His conquest makes us equal to the Gods.

Latin: Humana ante oculos foede cum vita iaceret in terris oppressa gravi sub religione, quae caput a caeli regionibus ostendebat horribili super aspectu mortalibus instans, primum Graius homo mortalis tollere contra est oculos ausus primusque obsistere contra; quem neque fama deum nec fulmina nec minitanti murmure compressit caelum, sed eo magis acrem inritat animi virtutem, effringere ut arta naturae primus portarum claustra cupiret. ergo vivida vis animi pervicit et extra processit longe flammantia moenia mundi atque omne immensum peragravit mente animoque, unde refert nobis victor quid possit oriri, quid nequeat, finita potestas denique cuique qua nam sit ratione atque alte terminus haerens. quare religio pedibus subiecta vicissim opteritur, nos exaequat victoria caelo.

Munro: This is what I fear herein, lest haply you should fancy that you are entering on unholy grounds of reason and treading the path of sin; whereas on the contrary often and often that very religion has given birth to sinful and unholy deeds. Thus in Aulis the chosen chieftains of the Danai, foremost of men, foully polluted with Iphianassa’s blood the altar of the Trivian maid. Soon as the fillet encircling her maiden tresses shed itself in equal lengths down each cheek, and soon as she saw her father standing sorrowful before the altars and beside him the ministering priests hiding the knife and her countrymen at sight of her shedding tears, speechless in terror she dropped down on her knees and sank to the ground. Nor aught in such a moment could it avail the luckless girl that she had first bestowed the name of father on the king. For lifted up in the hands of the men she was carried shivering to the altars, not after due performance of the customary rites to be escorted by the clear-ringing bridal song, but in the very season of marriage, stainless maid mid the stain of blood, to fall a sad victim by the sacrificing stroke of a father, that thus a happy and prosperous departure might be granted to the fleet. So great the evils to which religion could prompt!

Dunster: But in these things, I fear, you will suspect you are learning impious rudiments of reason, and entering in a road of wickedness. So, far from this, reflect what sad flagitious deeds Religion has produced. By her inspired, the Grecian chiefs, the first of men, at Aulis, Diana’s altar shamefully defiled with Iphigenia’s blood; her virgin hair a fillet bound, which hung in equal length on either side of her face. She saw her father, covered with sorrow, stand before the altar; for pity to his grief the butchering priests concealed the knife. The city, at the sight, overflowed with tears; the virgin, dumb with fear; fell low upon her knees on the hard Earth; in vain the wretched princess in distress pleaded that she first gave the honored name of Father to the King; but hurried off, and dragged by wicked hands, she, trembling, stood before the altar. Alas! not as a virgin, the solemn forms being duly done, drawn with pleasing force to Hymen’s noble rites, but a chaste maid, just ripe for nuptial joy, falls a sad victim, by a father’s hand, only to beg a kind propitious gale for Grecian ships. Such Scenes of villainy Religion could inspire!

Latin: Illud in his rebus vereor, ne forte rearis impia te rationis inire elementa viamque indugredi sceleris. quod contra saepius illa religio peperit scelerosa atque impia facta. Aulide quo pacto Triviai virginis aram Iphianassai turparunt sanguine foede ductores Danaum delecti, prima virorum. cui simul infula virgineos circum data comptus ex utraque pari malarum parte profusast, et maestum simul ante aras adstare parentem sensit et hunc propter ferrum celare ministros aspectuque suo lacrimas effundere civis, muta metu terram genibus summissa petebat. nec miserae prodesse in tali tempore quibat, quod patrio princeps donarat nomine regem; nam sublata virum manibus tremibundaque ad aras deductast, non ut sollemni more sacrorum perfecto posset claro comitari Hymenaeo, sed casta inceste nubendi tempore in ipso hostia concideret mactatu maesta parentis, exitus ut classi felix faustusque daretur. tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.

Munro: You yourself some time or other overcome by the terror-speaking tales of the seers will seek to fall away from us. Ay indeed for how many dreams may they now imagine for you, enough to upset the calculations of life and trouble all your fortunes with fear! And with good cause; for if men saw that there was a fixed limit to their woes, they would be able in some way to withstand the religious scruples and threatenings of the seers. As it is, there is noway, no means of resisting, since they must fear after death everlasting pains. For they cannot tell what is the nature of the soul, whether it be born or on the contrary find its way into men at their birth, and whether it perish together with us when severed from us by death or visit the gloom of Orcus and wasteful pools or by divine decree find its way into brutes in our stead, as sang our Ennius who first brought down from delightful Helicon a crown of unfading leaf, destined to bright renown throughout Italian clans of men. And yet with all this Ennius sets forth that there are Acherusian quarters, publishing it in immortal verses; though in our passage thither neither our souls nor bodies hold together, but only certain idols pale in wondrous wise. From these places he tells us the ghost of everliving Homer uprose before him and began to shed salt tears and to unfold in words the nature of things.

Dunster: But still I fear your caution will dispute the maxims I lay down, who all your life have trembled at the poets' frightful tales. Alas! I could even now invent such dreams as would pervert the steadiest rules of reason, and make your fortunes tremble to the bottom. No wonder! But if Men were once convinced that death was the sure end of all their pains, they might with reason, then, resist the force of all Religion, and contemn the threats of poets. Now, we have no sense, no power, to strive against prejudice, because we fear a scene of endless torments after death. And yet the nature of the soul we know not, whether formed with the body, or at the birth infused; and then, by death cut off, she perishes as bodies do; or whether she descends to the dark caves and dreadful lakes of Hell; or, after death, inspired with heavenly Instinct, she retires into the Brutes, as our great Ennius sung, who first a crown of laurels ever green brought down from Helicon; which gained him fame through all the Italian Coasts. And yet this man, in never-dying numbers, describes the stately Palaces of Acheron, where neither our souls or bodies ever come, but certain spectres strange and wondrous pale; from whence he tells how Homer’s ever celebrated shade appeared, and how his eyes began to flow with briny tears, as in immortal verse he sung of Nature and her secret laws.

Latin: Tutemet a nobis iam quovis tempore vatum terriloquis victus dictis desciscere quaeres. quippe etenim quam multa tibi iam fingere possunt somnia, quae vitae rationes vertere possint fortunasque tuas omnis turbare timore! et merito; nam si certam finem esse viderent aerumnarum homines, aliqua ratione valerent religionibus atque minis obsistere vatum. nunc ratio nulla est restandi, nulla facultas, aeternas quoniam poenas in morte timendum. ignoratur enim quae sit natura animai, nata sit an contra nascentibus insinuetur et simul intereat nobiscum morte dirempta an tenebras Orci visat vastasque lacunas an pecudes alias divinitus insinuet se, Ennius ut noster cecinit, qui primus amoeno detulit ex Helicone perenni fronde coronam, per gentis Italas hominum quae clara clueret; etsi praeterea tamen esse Acherusia templa Ennius aeternis exponit versibus edens, quo neque permaneant animae neque corpora nostra, sed quaedam simulacra modis pallentia miris; unde sibi exortam semper florentis Homeri commemorat speciem lacrimas effundere salsas coepisse et rerum naturam expandere dictis.

Munro: Wherefore we must well grasp the principle of things above, the principle by which the courses of the sun and moon go on, the force by which every thing on earth proceeds, but above all we must find out by keen reason what the soul and the nature of the mind consist of, and what thing it is-which meets us when awake and frightens our minds, if we are under the influence of disease; meets and frightens us too when we are buried in sleep; so that we seem to ‘see and hear speaking to us face to face them who are dead, whose bones earth holds in its embrace.

Dunster: Wherefore, I shall not only accurately write of things above, as how the Sun and Moon their courses run, and by what power beings in Earth and Heaven are formed, but chiefly search, with nicest care, into the soul, and what her Nature is; what it is that meets our wakeful eyes, and frightens the mind; and how, by sickness or by sleep oppressed, we think we see, or hear the voice of those who died long since, whose mouldering bones rot in the cold embraces of the grave.

Latin: Qua propter bene cum superis de rebus habenda nobis est ratio, solis lunaeque meatus qua fiant ratione, et qua vi quaeque gerantur in terris, tunc cum primis ratione sagaci unde anima atque animi constet natura videndum, et quae res nobis vigilantibus obvia mentes terrificet morbo adfectis somnoque sepultis, cernere uti videamur eos audireque coram, morte obita quorum tellus amplectitur ossa.

Munro: Nor does my mind fail to perceive how hard it is to make clear in Latin verses the dark discoveries of the Greeks, especially as many points must be dealt with in new terms on account of the poverty of the language and the novelty of the questions. But yet your worth and the looked-for pleasure of sweet friendship prompt me to undergo any labor and lead me on to watch the clear nights through, seeking by what words, and in what verse, I may be able in the end to shed on your mind so clear a light that you can thoroughly scan hidden things.

Dunster: I know it is hard to explain in Latin verse the dark and mystic notions of the Greeks, for I have things to say that require new words, because the tongue is poor, the subject new. But your virtue, and the pleasures I expect from tender friendship, make me bear the toil, and spend the silent night with wakeful eyes, studious of words and numbers I shall use, to open to your mind such scenes of light which shew the hidden qualities of things unknown.

Latin: Quod super est, vacuas auris animumque sagacem semotum a curis adhibe veram ad rationem, ne mea dona tibi studio disposta fideli, intellecta prius quam sint, contempta relinquas. nam tibi de summa caeli ratione deumque disserere incipiam et rerum primordia pandam, unde omnis natura creet res, auctet alatque, quove eadem rursum natura perempta resolvat, quae nos materiem et genitalia corpora rebus reddunda in ratione vocare et semina rerum appellare suemus et haec eadem usurpare corpora prima, quod ex illis sunt omnia primis. Nec me animi fallit Graiorum obscura reperta difficile inlustrare Latinis versibus esse, multa novis verbis praesertim cum sit agendum propter egestatem linguae et rerum novitatem; sed tua me virtus tamen et sperata voluptas suavis amicitiae quemvis efferre laborem suadet et inducit noctes vigilare serenas quaerentem dictis quibus et quo carmine demum clara tuae possim praepandere lumina menti, res quibus occultas penitus convisere possis.

Munro: This terror then and darkness of mind must be dispelled not by the rays of the sun and glittering shafts of day, but by the aspect and the law of nature; the warp of whose design we shall begin with this first principle, nothing is ever gotten out of nothing by divine power. Fear in sooth holds so in check all mortals, because they see many operations go on in earth and heaven, the causes of which they can in noway understand, believing them therefore to be done by power divine. For these reasons when we shall have seen that nothing can be produced from nothing, we shall then more correctly ascertain that which we are seeking, both the elements out of which everything can be produced and the manner in which all things are done without the hand of the gods.

Dunster: These terrors of the mind, this darkness then, not the Sun’s beams, nor the bright rays of day, can ever dispel, but Nature’s light and reason, whose first of principles shall be my guide: Nothing was by the Gods of nothing made. For hence it is that fear disturbs the mind, that strange events in Earth and Heaven are seen, whose causes cannot appear by reason’s eye, and then we say they were from Powers Divine. But when we rest convinced that nothing can arise from nothing, then the way is clear to our pursuit; we distinctly see whence every thing comes into being, and how things are formed, without the help and trouble of the Gods.

Latin: Hunc igitur terrorem animi tenebrasque necessest non radii solis neque lucida tela diei discutiant, sed naturae species ratioque. Principium cuius hinc nobis exordia sumet, nullam rem e nihilo gigni divinitus umquam. quippe ita formido mortalis continet omnis, quod multa in terris fieri caeloque tuentur, quorum operum causas nulla ratione videre possunt ac fieri divino numine rentur. quas ob res ubi viderimus nil posse creari de nihilo, tum quod sequimur iam rectius inde perspiciemus, et unde queat res quaeque creari et quo quaeque modo fiant opera sine divom.

Munro: If things came from nothing, any kind might be born of any thing, nothing would require seed. Men for instance might rise out of the sea, the scaly race out of the earth, and birds might burst out of the sky; horned and other herds, every kind of wild beasts would haunt with changing broad tilth and wilderness alike. Nor would the same fruits keep constant to trees, but would change; any tree might bear any fruit. For if there were not begetting bodies for each, how could things have a fixed unvarying mother? But in fact because things are all produced from fixed seeds, each thing is born and goes forth into the borders of light out of that in which resides its matter and first bodies; and for this reason all things cannot be gotten out of all things, because in particular things resides a distinct power.

Dunster: If things proceed from nothing, every thing might spring from any thing, and want no seed; Men from the sea might first arise, and fish and birds break from the Earth, and herds and tender flocks drop from the sky, and every kind of beast, fixed to no certain place, might find a being in deserts or in cultivated fields: Nor the same fruit on the same trees would grow, but would be changed, and all things all things bear. For had not every thing its genial seed, how is it that every thing derives its birth from causes still the same? But now, since things are formed from certain seeds, and first rise into light, where every being has its principles and matter fitly framed, from hence we see that all things cannot spring from every thing, since each has certain secret properties peculiar to itself.

Latin: Nam si de nihilo fierent, ex omnibus rebus omne genus nasci posset, nil semine egeret. e mare primum homines, e terra posset oriri squamigerum genus et volucres erumpere caelo; armenta atque aliae pecudes, genus omne ferarum, incerto partu culta ac deserta tenerent. nec fructus idem arboribus constare solerent, sed mutarentur, ferre omnes omnia possent. quippe ubi non essent genitalia corpora cuique, qui posset mater rebus consistere certa? at nunc seminibus quia certis quaeque creantur, inde enascitur atque oras in luminis exit, materies ubi inest cuiusque et corpora prima; atque hac re nequeunt ex omnibus omnia gigni, quod certis in rebus inest secreta facultas.

Munro: Again, why do we see the rose put forth in spring, corn in the season of heat, vines yielding at the call of autumn, if not because, when the fixed seeds of things have streamed together at the proper time, whatever is born discloses itself, while the due seasons are there and the quickened earth brings its weakly products in safety forth into the borders of light? But if they came from nothing, they would rise up suddenly at uncertain periods and unsuitable times of year, inasmuch as there would be no first-beginnings to be kept from a begetting union by the unpropitious season.

Dunster: Why do we see the rose adorn the Spring, the fruits in Summer, and the sweaty Autumn pressing the vine, unless the fixed seeds of things, uniting in their proper times, give life to beings, each in its stated season, while Mother Earth can trust her tender offspring with safety to the air. But if things proceed from nothing, in a moment they might spring at times uncertain, at quarters of the year unfit, and there would be no proper seeds, whose kindly influence might check their growth at seasons that would kill them in the bud.

Latin: Praeterea cur vere rosam, frumenta calore, vites autumno fundi suadente videmus, si non, certa suo quia tempore semina rerum cum confluxerunt, patefit quod cumque creatur, dum tempestates adsunt et vivida tellus tuto res teneras effert in luminis oras? quod si de nihilo fierent, subito exorerentur incerto spatio atque alienis partibus anni, quippe ubi nulla forent primordia, quae genitali concilio possent arceri tempore iniquo.

Munro: No nor would time be required for the growth of things after the meeting of the seed, if they could increase out of nothing. Little babies would at once grow into men and trees in a moment would rise and spring out of the ground. But none of these events it is plain ever comes to pass, since all things grow step by step \[at a fixed time\], as is natural, \[since they all grow\] from a fixed seed and in growing preserve their kind; so that you may be sure that all things increase in size and are fed out of their own matter.

Dunster: Again, if things could spring from nought, what need of time for bodies to fulfill their growth by accession of new matter? An infant then might instantly become a youth, and trees start up in full perfection from the Earth. But ‘tis not so, ‘tis plain; for things, we know, grow by degrees from certain seeds, and still, as they grow, keep their kind; and thus you find each being rise into bulk, and thrives from seed and matter proper to itself.

Latin: Nec porro augendis rebus spatio foret usus seminis ad coitum, si e nilo crescere possent; nam fierent iuvenes subito ex infantibus parvis e terraque exorta repente arbusta salirent. quorum nil fieri manifestum est, omnia quando paulatim crescunt, ut par est semine certo, crescentesque genus servant; ut noscere possis quicque sua de materia grandescere alique.

Munro: Furthermore without fixed seasons of rain the earth is unable to put forth its gladdening produce, nor again if kept from food could the nature of living things continue its kind and sustain life; so that you may hold with greater truth that many bodies are common to many things, as we see letters common to different words, than that anything could come into being without first-beginnings.

Dunster: Nor, likewise, can the Earth produce her fruits to cheer the heart, unless with timely showers impregnated; nor can creatures, blessed with life, deprived of food, ever propagate their kind, or save their own lives; and so you safer say that certain fixed principles belong to certain things, as letters form our words, than that from nothing any thing can rise.

Latin: Huc accedit uti sine certis imbribus anni laetificos nequeat fetus submittere tellus nec porro secreta cibo natura animantum propagare genus possit vitamque tueri; ut potius multis communia corpora rebus multa putes esse, ut verbis elementa videmus, quam sine principiis ullam rem existere posse.

Munro: Again why could not nature have produced men of such a size and strength as to be able to wade on foot across the sea and rend great mountains with their hands and outlive many generations of living men, if not because an unchanging matter has been assigned for begetting things and what can arise out of this matter is fixed? We must admit therefore that nothing can come from nothing, since things ,require seed before they can severally be born and be brought out into the buxom fields of air.

Dunster: Further, whence is it that Nature cannot shew men so gigantic as, on foot, to wade through seas, or with their hands to tear up mighty hills, or to surpass the common bounds of life, by many ages, but that certain seeds are fixed to all things, whence they must arise? And so we must confess that nothing springs from nothing, since each kind must proceed from seed, the principle whence every creature derives its life, and feels the gentle air.

Latin: Denique cur homines tantos natura parare non potuit, pedibus qui pontum per vada possent transire et magnos manibus divellere montis multaque vivendo vitalia vincere saecla, si non, materies quia rebus reddita certast gignundis, e qua constat quid possit oriri? nil igitur fieri de nilo posse fatendumst, semine quando opus est rebus, quo quaeque creatae aeris in teneras possint proferrier auras.

Munro: Lastly, since we see that tilled grounds surpass untilled and yield a better produce by the labor of hands, we may infer that there are in the earth first-beginnings of things which by turning up the fruitful clods with the share and laboring the soil of the earth we stimulate to rise. But if there were not such, you would see all things without any labor of ours spontaneously come forth in much greater perfection.

Dunster: Besides, we find the Earth, improved by care, exceeds the uncultivated soil, and by turning up the fruitful clods, by ploughing, and, by breaking up the ground, we force to spring. But then, if no such seeds lay there, the fruits, without our labor, would of their own accord improve, and of themselves prevent our care.

Latin: Postremo quoniam incultis praestare videmus culta loca et manibus melioris reddere fetus, esse videlicet in terris primordia rerum quae nos fecundas vertentes vomere glebas terraique solum subigentes cimus ad ortus; quod si nulla forent, nostro sine quaeque labore sponte sua multo fieri meliora videres.

Munro: Moreover nature dissolves every thing back into its first bodies and does not annihilate things. For if aught were mortal in all its parts alike, the thing in a moment would be snatched away to destruction from before our eyes; since no force would be needed to produce disruption among its parts and undo their fastenings. Whereas in fact, as all things consist of an imperishable seed, nature suffers the destruction of nothing to be seen, until a force has encountered lit sufficient to dash things to pieces by a blow or to pierce through the void places within them and break them up.

Dunster: Add, here, that Nature dissolves all bodies into their principles again, nor can reduce things into nothing. For if every being was liable to death through all its substance, snatched from our eyes, it would directly perish; no need of violence to make a breach in all its parts, and loose the vital bands. But now, since things are formed from eternal seeds, Nature wills that nothing be destroyed unless some force prevails, which beats with blows its outward form, or pierces through the pores, with subtle art, and so dissolves the frame.

Latin: Huc accedit uti quicque in sua corpora rursum dissoluat natura neque ad nihilum interemat res. nam siquid mortale e cunctis partibus esset, ex oculis res quaeque repente erepta periret; nulla vi foret usus enim, quae partibus eius discidium parere et nexus exsolvere posset. quod nunc, aeterno quia constant semine quaeque, donec vis obiit, quae res diverberet ictu aut intus penetret per inania dissoluatque, nullius exitium patitur natura videri.

Munro: Again if time, whenever it makes away with things through age, utterly destroys them eating up all their matter, out of what does Venus bring back into the light of life the race of living things each after its kind, or, when they are brought back, out of what does earth manifold in works give them nourishment and increase, furnishing them with food each after its kind? Out of what do its own native fountains and extraneous rivers from far and wide keep full the sea? Out of what does ether feed the stars? For infinite time gone by and lapse of days must have eaten up all things which are of mortal body. Now if in that period of time gone by those things have existed, of which this sum of things is composed and recruited, they are possessed no doubt of an imperishable body, and cannot therefore any of them return to nothing.

Dunster: Besides, such things as are removed by age, if time destroys them quite in all its parts, whence does the Power of Love restore to light the several races of beings? Whence the Earth, with nicest art, does nourish them when born, and makes them grow, and feeds with proper food each its kind? Whence do the bounteous springs and rivers, with their wandering streams from far, supply the sea? The air whence feed the stars? For that vast tract of time already past had long ago consumed things that were formed from mortal seed. But if those bodies which compose this universe of things were still supplied through all that space and periods of time that passed long since, they must surely consist of an immortal nature, and, from death secure, can never into nothing fall.

Latin: Praeterea quae cumque vetustate amovet aetas, si penitus peremit consumens materiem omnem, unde animale genus generatim in lumina vitae redducit Venus, aut redductum daedala tellus unde alit atque auget generatim pabula praebens? unde mare ingenuei fontes externaque longe flumina suppeditant? unde aether sidera pascit? omnia enim debet, mortali corpore quae sunt, infinita aetas consumpse ante acta diesque. quod si in eo spatio atque ante acta aetate fuere e quibus haec rerum consistit summa refecta, inmortali sunt natura praedita certe. haud igitur possunt ad nilum quaeque reverti.

Munro: Again the same force and cause would destroy all things without distinction, unless everlasting matter held them together, matter more or less closely linked in mutual entanglement: a touch in sooth would be sufficient cause of death, inasmuch as any amount of force must of course undo the texture of things in which no parts at all were of an everlasting body. But in fact, because the fastenings of first-beginnings one with the other are unlike and matter is everlasting, things continue with body uninjured, until a force is found to encounter them strong enough to overpower the texture of each thing therefore never returns to nothing, but all things after disruption go back into the first bodies of matter.

Dunster: Again, the same violence would everywhere destroy all beings, if the eternal power of matter did not hold fast their close compacted frame in bonds more strong or weak; a single touch would surely be the cause of death, for things formed out of mortal seed by any force must perish, and their frame be quite dissolved; but now, because the union of seeds of bodies differs, which consist of matter eternal in its nature, every being is safe from danger ‘til some proper force, proportioned to its texture, makes the assault. So nothing can return to nothing; every thing resolves by separation of its parts into its principles from whence it sprung.

Latin: Denique res omnis eadem vis causaque volgo conficeret, nisi materies aeterna teneret, inter se nexus minus aut magis indupedita; tactus enim leti satis esset causa profecto, quippe ubi nulla forent aeterno corpore, quorum contextum vis deberet dissolvere quaeque. at nunc, inter se quia nexus principiorum dissimiles constant aeternaque materies est, incolumi remanent res corpore, dum satis acris vis obeat pro textura cuiusque reperta. haud igitur redit ad nihilum res ulla, sed omnes discidio redeunt in corpora materiai.

Munro: Lastly, rains die, when father ether has tumbled them into the lap of mother earth; but then goodly crops spring up and boughs are green with leaves upon the trees, trees themselves grow and are laden with fruit; by them in turn our race and the race of wild beasts are fed, by them we see glad towns teem with children and the leafy forests ring on all sides with the song of new birds; through them cattle wearied with their load of fat lay their bodies down about the glad pastures and the white milky stream pours from the distended udders; through them a new brood with weakly limbs frisks and gambols over the soft grass, rapt in their young hearts with the pure new milk. None of the things therefore which seem to be lost is utterly lost, since nature replenishes one thing out of another and does not suffer any thing to be begotten, before she has been recruited by the death of some other.

Dunster: Lastly, the rains that Father Aether pours into the womb of mother earth do seem to perish there, but strait fair fruits spring up; the boughs grow green upon the trees, their limbs increase, and bend beneath a load of fruit; hence all living race of men and beasts are fed, our gallant cities filled with youth, our leafy woods resound with songs of birds new fledged; the weary flocks grow fat, repose their bodies on the fertile plains, while the white milky humour from their dugs distended flows; and hence their sprightly young, in wanton play, frisk with their tender limbs over the soft grass, cheering their little hearts with the pure milk; and therefore things we see do not entirely die. Nature still renews one being by another, nor does she suffer one thing to be, unless supplied with matter from something else that was dissolved before.

Latin: Postremo pereunt imbres, ubi eos pater aether in gremium matris terrai praecipitavit; at nitidae surgunt fruges ramique virescunt arboribus, crescunt ipsae fetuque gravantur. hinc alitur porro nostrum genus atque ferarum, hinc laetas urbes pueris florere videmus frondiferasque novis avibus canere undique silvas, hinc fessae pecudes pinguis per pabula laeta corpora deponunt et candens lacteus umor uberibus manat distentis, hinc nova proles artubus infirmis teneras lasciva per herbas ludit lacte mero mentes perculsa novellas. haud igitur penitus pereunt quaecumque videntur, quando alit ex alio reficit natura nec ullam rem gigni patitur nisi morte adiuta aliena.

Munro: Now mark me: since I have taught that things cannot be born from nothing, cannot when begotten be brought back to nothing, that you may not haply yet begin in any shape to mistrust my words, because the first-beginnings of things cannot be seen by the eyes, take moreover this list of bodies which you must yourself admit are in the number of things and cannot be seen.

Dunster: And now, since I have taught that nothing can proceed from nothing, nor can things, once formed, to nothing be reduced, lest you by chance should doubt my reasons, since the seeds of things cannot be seen with naked eyes; hear further, that there are seeds of bodies (and you must confess there are) impervious to the sight.

Latin: Nunc age, res quoniam docui non posse creari de nihilo neque item genitas ad nil revocari, ne qua forte tamen coeptes diffidere dictis, quod nequeunt oculis rerum primordia cerni, accipe praeterea quae corpora tute necessest confiteare esse in rebus nec posse videri.

Munro: First of all the force of the wind when aroused beats on the harbors and whelms huge ships and scatters clouds; sometimes in swift whirling eddy it scours the plains and straws them with large trees and scourges the mountain summits with forest-rending blasts: so fiercely does the wind rave with a shrill howling and rage with threatening roar. Winds therefore sure enough are unseen bodies which sweep the seas, the lands, ay and the clouds of heaven, tormenting them and catching them up in sudden whirls. On they stream and spread destruction abroad in just the same way as the soft liquid nature of water, when all at once it is borne along in an overflowing stream, and a great downfall of water from the high hills augments it with copious rains, flinging together fragments of forests and entire ,trees; nor can the strong bridges sustain the sudden force of coming water: in such wise turbid with much rain the river dashes upon the piers with mighty force: makes havoc with loud noise and rolls under its eddies huge stones: wherever aught opposes its waves, down it dashes it. In this way then must the blasts of wind as well move on, and when they like a mighty stream have borne down in any direction, they push things before them and throw them down with repeated assaults, sometimes catch them up in curling eddy and carry them away in swift-circling whirl. Wherefore once and again I say winds are unseen bodies, since in their works and ways they are found to rival great rivers which are of a visible body.

Dunster: And first, the raging force of winds does lash the sea, o'erthrow vast ships, and chase the clouds; sometimes they scour the plains with furious storms, and spread them o'er with tallest trees, and vex the lofty hills with blasts that rend the woods. And so they bluster with a dreadful sound, and roar with threatening noise through the air. These winds are therefore bodies to the eyes unseen, which scour the sea, the lands, the clouds, and toss them, thus tormented, with their blasts. They act the same, and spread destruction round as a still stream, increased by sudden rain, and swelled by torrents pouring from the hills, the effect of driving showers, is born along, rending the limbs of trees, and then whole woods: Nor can the strongest bridges bear the force, so sudden, of the rushing flood; the stream, made mad by hasty rains, beats on the dams with force impetuous, swells through the breach with horrid noise, and rolls the massy stones under its waves, and breaks what stops its tide. Just so, the hurricanes of wind drive on which way they point their blasts, like mighty floods, force all before them, beat with frequent strokes; sometimes they snatch with rapid turns, and while things as they roll in eddies through the air. These winds, 'tis plain, are bodies still unseen, since by their furious blasts they rival in their force the largest streams, which bodies are we own.

Latin: Principio venti vis verberat incita corpus ingentisque ruit navis et nubila differt, inter dum rapido percurrens turbine campos arboribus magnis sternit montisque supremos silvifragis vexat flabris: ita perfurit acri cum fremitu saevitque minaci murmure pontus. sunt igitur venti ni mirum corpora caeca, quae mare, quae terras, quae denique nubila caeli verrunt ac subito vexantia turbine raptant, nec ratione fluunt alia stragemque propagant et cum mollis aquae fertur natura repente flumine abundanti, quam largis imbribus auget montibus ex altis magnus decursus aquai fragmina coniciens silvarum arbustaque tota, nec validi possunt pontes venientis aquai vim subitam tolerare: ita magno turbidus imbri molibus incurrit validis cum viribus amnis, dat sonitu magno stragem volvitque sub undis grandia saxa, ruit qua quidquid fluctibus obstat. sic igitur debent venti quoque flamina ferri, quae vel uti validum cum flumen procubuere quam libet in partem, trudunt res ante ruuntque impetibus crebris, inter dum vertice torto corripiunt rapidique rotanti turbine portant. quare etiam atque etiam sunt venti corpora caeca, quandoquidem factis et moribus aemula magnis amnibus inveniuntur, aperto corpore qui sunt.

Munro: Then again we perceive the different smells of things, yet never see them coming to our nostrils; nor do we behold heats nor can we observe cold with the eyes nor are we used to see voices. Yet all these things must consist of a bodily nature, since they are able to move the senses; for nothing but body can touch and be touched.

Dunster: Besides, we feel the various smells of things, but can't discern how they affect the nose; nor can we see the raging heat, nor with our eyes perceive the cold, nor can we see a voice; all which by nature are of bodies formed, because they make an impression on the sense, for nothing but body can be touched, or touch.

Latin: Tum porro varios rerum sentimus odores nec tamen ad naris venientis cernimus umquam nec calidos aestus tuimur nec frigora quimus usurpare oculis nec voces cernere suemus; quae tamen omnia corporea constare necessest natura, quoniam sensus inpellere possunt; tangere enim et tangi, nisi corpus, nulla potest res.

Munro: [305] Again clothes hung up on a shore which waves break upon become moist, and then get dry if spread out in the sun. Yet it has not been seen in what way the moisture of water has sunk into them nor again in what way this has been dispelled by heat. The moisture therefore is dispersed into small particles which the eyes are quite unable to see.

Dunster: Again, a garment hung up nigh the shore, that breaks the waves, grows wet, and, to the Sun expanded, dries; yet no one ever saw how the moist vapor fixed, or how again it fled before the heat; the watery drops must be dissolved into small parts too subtle to be at all discovered by the eye.

Latin: Denique fluctifrago suspensae in litore vestis uvescunt, eaedem dispansae in sole serescunt. at neque quo pacto persederit umor aquai visumst nec rursum quo pacto fugerit aestu. in parvas igitur partis dispergitur umor, quas oculi nulla possunt ratione videre.

Munro: Again after the revolution of many of the sun’s years a ring on the finger is thinned on the under side by wearing, the dripping from the eaves hollows a stone, the bent plowshare of iron imperceptibly decreases in the fields, and we behold the stone-paved streets worn down by the feet of the multitude; the brass statues too at the gates show their right hands to be wasted by the touch of the numerous passers by who greet them. These things then we see are lessened, since they have been thus worn down; but what bodies depart at any given time the nature of vision has jealously shut out our seeing.

Dunster: But further, after circling many years, a ring upon the finger wears away, the fall of dropping water hollows stones, the crooked plough-share, though of iron, wastes in the fields insensibly by use; we see the streets, paved with hard stones, worn out by frequent tread of passengers; the brazen statues nigh the gates shew their right hands made less by many a kiss of those who worship, or who pass along. These things we see shew less and less, and wear; but what a share of matter every time is brushed off, nature in envy to us has not indulged the faculty to see.

Latin: Quin etiam multis solis redeuntibus annis anulus in digito subter tenuatur habendo, stilicidi casus lapidem cavat, uncus aratri ferreus occulte decrescit vomer in arvis, strataque iam volgi pedibus detrita viarum saxea conspicimus; tum portas propter aena signa manus dextras ostendunt adtenuari saepe salutantum tactu praeterque meantum. haec igitur minui, cum sint detrita, videmus. sed quae corpora decedant in tempore quoque, invida praeclusit speciem natura videndi.

Munro: Lastly the bodies which time and nature add to things by little and little, constraining them to grow in due measure, no exertion of the eyesight can behold; and so too wherever things grow old by age and decay, and when rocks hanging over the sea are eaten away by the gnawing salt spray, you cannot see what they lose at any given moment Nature therefore works by unseen bodies.

Dunster: Lastly, what every day and nature do bestow on beings, to make them grow by just degrees, not the most piercing eye could ever find, nor yet the particles that fly and waste by age or by decay; nor can you see by what degrees the rocks are eaten through by the corroding salt of dashing waves: thus Nature works by bodies not discerned.

Latin: Postremo quae cumque dies naturaque rebus paulatim tribuit moderatim crescere cogens, nulla potest oculorum acies contenta tueri, nec porro quae cumque aevo macieque senescunt, nec, mare quae impendent, vesco sale saxa peresa quid quoque amittant in tempore cernere possis. corporibus caecis igitur natura gerit res.

Munro: And yet all things are not on all sides jammed together and kept in by body: there is also void in things. To have learned this will be good for you on many accounts; it will not suffer you to wander in doubt and be to seek in the sum of things and, distrustful of our words. If there were not void, things could not move at all; for that which is the property of body, to let and hinder, would be present to all things at all times; nothing therefore could go on, since no other thing would be the first to give way. But in fact throughout seas and lands and the heights of heaven we see before our eyes many things move in many ways for various reasons, which things, if there were no void, I need not say would lack and want restless motion: they never would have been begotten at all, since matter jammed on all sides would have been at rest.

Dunster: And yet all beings are not formed of close and solid parts; in things there is a void, which in your searches into nature will be of use to know. This will preserve your wandering mind from doubt, prevent your constant toil by judging right of nature's laws, and make my words believed. Wherefore there is a place we call a void, an empty space intangible, or else no bodies could be moved, or stir; the quality all bodies have to stop and to oppose does never fail, so that to move would be in vain to try, no body first by yielding would give way. But now we see before our eyes that things move various ways in seas, in Earth, and in the heaven above; but were there no void, they would not be deprived of that activity of motion only, but would not be at all; for matter wedged and crowded close on every side had ever been at rest.

Latin: Nec tamen undique corporea stipata tenentur omnia natura; namque est in rebus inane. quod tibi cognosse in multis erit utile rebus nec sinet errantem dubitare et quaerere semper de summa rerum et nostris diffidere dictis. qua propter locus est intactus inane vacansque. quod si non esset, nulla ratione moveri res possent; namque officium quod corporis exstat, officere atque obstare, id in omni tempore adesset omnibus; haud igitur quicquam procedere posset, principium quoniam cedendi nulla daret res. at nunc per maria ac terras sublimaque caeli multa modis multis varia ratione moveri cernimus ante oculos, quae, si non esset inane, non tam sollicito motu privata carerent quam genita omnino nulla ratione fuissent, undique materies quoniam stipata quiesset.

Munro: Again however solid things are thought to be, you may yet learn from this that they are of rare body: in rocks and caverns the moisture of water oozes through and all things weep with abundant drops; food distributes itself through the whole body of living things; trees grow and yield fruit in season, because food is diffused through the whole from the very roots over the stem and all the boughs. Voices pass through walls and fly through houses shut, stiffening frost pierces to the bones. Now if there are no void parts, by what way can the bodies severally pass? You would see it to be quite impossible.

Dunster: Besides, though things appear of solid parts composed, yet you will find them, in some measure, formed of bodies that are rare; the liquid moisture of the water sweats through rocks and stones, and all things weep with drops abundant; the food that every creature eats disperses through the body; the trees increase and grow and in due season shew their fruit; because the juice is from the lowe roots spread through the trunk, and over all the boughs. Sounds pass through strong partitions, and fly quick through walls of houses, and the piercing cold strikes through the very bones; but were no void, no empty space, that bodies ever should pass, you'd find a thing impossible to prove.

Latin: Praeterea quamvis solidae res esse putentur, hinc tamen esse licet raro cum corpore cernas. in saxis ac speluncis permanat aquarum liquidus umor et uberibus flent omnia guttis. dissipat in corpus sese cibus omne animantum; crescunt arbusta et fetus in tempore fundunt, quod cibus in totas usque ab radicibus imis per truncos ac per ramos diffunditur omnis. inter saepta meant voces et clausa domorum transvolitant, rigidum permanat frigus ad ossa. quod nisi inania sint, qua possent corpora quaeque transire, haud ulla fieri ratione videres.

Munro: Once more, why do we see one thing surpass another in weight though not larger in size? For if there is just as much body in a ball of wool as there is in a lump of lead, it is natural it should weigh the same, since the property of body is to weigh all things downwards, while on the contrary the nature of void is ever without weight. Therefore when a thing is just as large, yet is found to be void in it; while on the other hand that which is lighter, it proves sure enough that it has more of ‘heavier shows that there is in it more of body and that it contains within it much less of void. Therefore that which we are seeking with keen reason exists sure enough, mixed up in things; and we call it void.

Dunster: Again, why do we see some things exceed others in weight, though of equal size? For if as much of body went to form a ball of wool as made a ball of lead, their weight would be the same; for the quality of body is to press downward: but a perfect void by nature has no weight; so that a body of equal size, but lighter in its weight, proves it has more of empty space. So again, the heavier body has more of solid parts 'tis plain, and has within it less of void. And this is doubtless what with reason's searching eye we look for, mixed with things; we call it space.

Latin: Denique cur alias aliis praestare videmus pondere res rebus nihilo maiore figura? nam si tantundemst in lanae glomere quantum corporis in plumbo est, tantundem pendere par est, corporis officiumst quoniam premere omnia deorsum, contra autem natura manet sine pondere inanis. ergo quod magnumst aeque leviusque videtur, ni mirum plus esse sibi declarat inanis; at contra gravius plus in se corporis esse dedicat et multo vacui minus intus habere. est igitur ni mirum id quod ratione sagaci quaerimus, admixtum rebus, quod inane vocamus.

Munro: And herein I am obliged to forestall this point which some raise, lest it draw you away from the truth. The waters they say make way for the scaly creatures as they press on, and open liquid paths, because the fish leave room behind them, into which the yielding waters may stream; thus other things too may move and change place among themselves, although the whole sum be full. This you are to know has been taken up on grounds wholly false. For on what side I ask can the scaly creatures move forwards, unless the waters have first made room? Again on what side can the waters give place, so long as the fish are unable to go on? Therefore you must either strip all bodies of motion or admit that in things void is mixed up from which every thing gets its first start in moving.

Dunster: But I am forced to step before, and answer what some pretend, lest you should be seduced from truth: They say the waters yield to fish making their way, and open their liquid paths; for when the fish have left a space, that instant thither the yielding waters circling flow. By the same rule, all beings may be moved among themselves, and change their former place, though all things should be full: but this, 'tis plain, is false throughout; for how could fish advance at all, unless the waters gave them way? And whither should the waves retire, if the fish did not move, and leave a space behind? So that all bodies must be deprived of motion, or you must say a void is mixed with every thing from whence each being first derives a power to move.

Latin: Illud in his rebus ne te deducere vero possit, quod quidam fingunt, praecurrere cogor. cedere squamigeris latices nitentibus aiunt et liquidas aperire vias, quia post loca pisces linquant, quo possint cedentes confluere undae; sic alias quoque res inter se posse moveri et mutare locum, quamvis sint omnia plena. scilicet id falsa totum ratione receptumst. nam quo squamigeri poterunt procedere tandem, ni spatium dederint latices? concedere porro quo poterunt undae, cum pisces ire nequibunt? aut igitur motu privandumst corpora quaeque aut esse admixtum dicundumst rebus inane, unde initum primum capiat res quaeque movendi.

Munro: Lastly if two broad bodies after contact quickly spring asunder, the air must surely fill all the void which is formed between the bodies. Well however rapidly it stream together with swift-circling currents, yet the whole space will not be able to be filled up in one moment for it must occupy first one spot and then another, until the whole is taken up. But if haply any one supposes that, when the bodies have started asunder, that result follows because the air condenses, he is mistaken; for a void is then formed which was not before, and a void also is filled which existed before; nor can the air condense in such a way, nor supposing it could, could it methinks without void draw into itself and bring its parts together. Wherefore however long you hold out by urging many objections, you must needs in the end admit that there is a void in things.

Dunster: Lastly, if two broad bodies meet, and instantly are separated again, the air must needs fill up the void that is between; but this air, though it should hurry with its swiftest powers, it cannot all at once fill up the space these bodies will disclose at parting; first the nearest part will be filled up, and then the more remote, until the whole be full. If one should say when these flat bodies meet the air is condensed, but when they part the air is rarefied, 'tis a mistake; for then here must be void where there was none before, and that void that was before must now be full; in such a case, the air can't be condensed; and if it could, it can't without a void contract itself, and so reduce its parts into a closer space. Wherefore, perplex the matter as you please, you must confess in things there is a void.

Latin: Postremo duo de concursu corpora lata si cita dissiliant, nempe aer omne necessest, inter corpora quod fiat, possidat inane. is porro quamvis circum celerantibus auris confluat, haud poterit tamen uno tempore totum compleri spatium; nam primum quemque necessest occupet ille locum, deinde omnia possideantur. quod si forte aliquis, cum corpora dissiluere, tum putat id fieri quia se condenseat aer, errat; nam vacuum tum fit quod non fuit ante et repletur item vacuum quod constitit ante, nec tali ratione potest denserier aer nec, si iam posset, sine inani posset, opinor, ipse in se trahere et partis conducere in unum.

Munro: And many more arguments I may state to you in order to accumulate proof on my words; but these slight footprints are enough for a keen-searching mind to enable you by yourself to find out all the rest. For as dogs often discover by smell the lair of a mountain-ranging wild beast though covered over with leaves, when once they have got on the sure tracks, thus you in cases like this will be able by yourself alone to see one thing after another and find your way into all dark corners and draw forth the truth. But if you lag or swerve a jot from the reality, this I can promise you, Memmius, without more ado: such plenteous draughts from abundant wellsprings my sweet tongue shall pour from my richly furnished breast, that I fear slow age will steal over our limbs and break open in us the fastnesses of life, ere the whole store of reasons on any one question has by my verses been dropped into your ears.

Dunster: I could by many arguments confirm this system of a void, and fix your faith to what I say, but these small tracks I have drawn, to such a searching mind, will be enough; the rest you may find out without a guide. For as staunch hounds, once put upon the foot, will by nose soon rouse the mountain game from their thick covers, so you, in things like these, will one thing by another trace, will hunt for truth in every dark recess, and draw her thence. But if you doubt, or in the least object to what I say, I freely promise this, my Memmius, my tuneful tongue shall, from the mighty store that fills my heart, pour out such plenteous draughts from the deep springs, that tardy age I fear will first creep through my limbs, and quite break down the gates of life, before I can explain in verse the many arguments that give a light to one particular. But now I shall go on to finish regularly what I begun.

Latin: Qua propter, quamvis causando multa moreris, esse in rebus inane tamen fateare necessest. multaque praeterea tibi possum commemorando argumenta fidem dictis conradere nostris. verum animo satis haec vestigia parva sagaci sunt, per quae possis cognoscere cetera tute. namque canes ut montivagae persaepe ferai naribus inveniunt intectas fronde quietes, cum semel institerunt vestigia certa viai, sic alid ex alio per te tute ipse videre talibus in rebus poteris caecasque latebras insinuare omnis et verum protrahere inde. quod si pigraris paulumve recesseris ab re, hoc tibi de plano possum promittere, Memmi: usque adeo largos haustus e fontibus magnis lingua meo suavis diti de pectore fundet, ut verear ne tarda prius per membra senectus serpat et in nobis vitai claustra resolvat, quam tibi de quavis una re versibus omnis argumentorum sit copia missa per auris.

Munro: But now to resume the thread of the design which I am weaving in verse. All nature then, as it exists by itself, is founded on two things: there are bodies and there is void in which these bodies are placed and through which they move about. For that body exists by itself the general feeling of man kind declares; and unless at the very first belief in this be firmly grounded, there will be nothing to which we can appeal on hidden things in order to prove anything by reasoning of mind. Then again, if room and space which we call void did not exist, bodies could not be placed anywhere nor move about at all to any side; as we have demonstrated to you a little before.

Dunster: All nature therefore, in itself considered, is one of these, is body or is space, in which all things are placed, and from which the various motions of all beings spring. That there is body common sense will show; this as a fundamental truth must be allowed, or there is nothing we can fix as certain in our pursuit of hidden things, by which to find the Truth, or prove it when 'tis found. Then if there were no place or space, we call it void, bodies would have no where to be, nor could they move at all, as we have fully proved to you before.

Latin: Sed nunc ut repetam coeptum pertexere dictis, omnis ut est igitur per se natura duabus constitit in rebus; nam corpora sunt et inane, haec in quo sita sunt et qua diversa moventur. corpus enim per se communis dedicat esse sensus; cui nisi prima fides fundata valebit, haut erit occultis de rebus quo referentes confirmare animi quicquam ratione queamus. tum porro locus ac spatium, quod inane vocamus, si nullum foret, haut usquam sita corpora possent esse neque omnino quoquam diversa meare; id quod iam supera tibi paulo ostendimus ante.

Munro: Moreover there is nothing which you can affirm to be at once separate from all body and quite distinct from void, which would so to say count as the discovery of a third nature. For whatever shall exist, this of itself must be something or other. Now if it shall admit of touch in however slight and small a measure, it will, be it with a large or be it with a little addition, provided it do exist, increase the amount of body and join the sum. But if it shall be intangible and unable to hinder any thing from passing through it on any side, this you are to know will be that which we call empty void. Again whatever shall exist by itself, will either do something or will itself suffer by the action of other things, or will be of such a nature as things are able to exist and go on in. But no thing can do and suffer without body, nor aught furnish room except void and vacancy. Therefore beside void and bodies no third nature taken by itself can be left in the number of things, either such as to fall at any time under the ken of our senses or such as any one can grasp by the reason of his mind.

Dunster: Besides, there is nothing you can strictly say, “It is neither body nor void,” which you may call a third degree of things distinct from these. For every being must in quantity be more or less; and if it can be touched, though never so small or light, it must be body, and so esteemed; but if it can't be touched, and has not in itself a power to stop the course of other bodies as they pass, this is the void we call an empty space. Again, whatever is must either act itself, or be by other agents acted on; or must be something in which other bodies must have a place and move; but nothing without body can act, or be acted on; and where can this be done, but in a vacuum or empty space? Therefore, beside what body is or space, no third degree in nature can be found, nothing that ever can affect our sense, or by the power of thought can be conceived.

Latin: Praeterea nihil est quod possis dicere ab omni corpore seiunctum secretumque esse ab inani, quod quasi tertia sit numero natura reperta. nam quod cumque erit, esse aliquid debebit id ipsum augmine vel grandi vel parvo denique, dum sit; cui si tactus erit quamvis levis exiguusque, corporis augebit numerum summamque sequetur; sin intactile erit, nulla de parte quod ullam rem prohibere queat per se transire meantem, scilicet hoc id erit, vacuum quod inane vocamus. Praeterea per se quod cumque erit, aut faciet quid aut aliis fungi debebit agentibus ipsum aut erit ut possint in eo res esse gerique. at facere et fungi sine corpore nulla potest res nec praebere locum porro nisi inane vacansque. ergo praeter inane et corpora tertia per se nulla potest rerum in numero natura relinqui, nec quae sub sensus cadat ullo tempore nostros nec ratione animi quam quisquam possit apisci. Nam quae cumque cluent, aut his coniuncta duabus rebus ea invenies aut horum eventa videbis.

Munro: For whatever things are named, you will either find to be properties linked to these two things or you will see to be accidents of these things. That is a property which can in no case be disjoined and separated without utter destruction accompanying the severance, such as the weight of a stone, the heat of fire, the fluidity of water. Slavery on the other hand, poverty and riches, liberty war concord and all other things which may come and go while the nature of the thing remains unharmed, these we are wont, as it is right we should, to call accidents. Time also exists not by itself, but simply from the things which happen the sense apprehends what has been done in time past, as well as what is present and what is to follow after. And we must admit that no one feels time by itself abstracted from the motion and calm rest of things.

Dunster: All other things you'll find essential conjuncts, or else the events or accidents of these. I call essential conjunct what's so joined to a thing that it cannot, without fatal violence, be forced or parted from it; is weight to stones, to fire heat, moisture to the Sea, touch to all bodies, and not to be touched essential is to void. But, on the contrary, Bondage, Liberty, Riches, Poverty, War, Concord, or the like, which not affect the nature of the thing, but when they come or go, the thing remains entire; these, as it is fit we should, we call Events. Time, likewise, of itself is nothing; our sense collects from things themselves what has been done long since, the thing that present is, and what's to come. For no one, we must own, ever thought of Time distinct from things in motion or at rest.

Latin: Coniunctum est id quod nusquam sine permitiali discidio potis est seiungi seque gregari, pondus uti saxis, calor ignis, liquor aquai, tactus corporibus cunctis, intactus inani. servitium contra paupertas divitiaeque, libertas bellum concordia cetera quorum adventu manet incolumis natura abituque, haec soliti sumus, ut par est, eventa vocare. tempus item per se non est, sed rebus ab ipsis consequitur sensus, transactum quid sit in aevo, tum quae res instet, quid porro deinde sequatur; nec per se quemquam tempus sentire fatendumst semotum ab rerum motu placidaque quiete.

Munro: [464] So when they say that the daughter of Tyndarus was ravished and the Trojan nations were subdued in war, we must mind that they do not force us to admit that these things are by themselves, since those generations of men, of whom these things were accidents, time now gone by has irrevocably swept away. For whatever shall have been done may be termed an accident in one case of the Teucran people, in another of the countries simply. Yes for if there had been no matter of things and no room and space in which things severally go on, never had the fire, kindled by love of the beauty of Tyndarus’ daughter, blazed beneath the Phrygian breast of Alexander and lighted up the famous struggles of cruel war, nor had the timber horse unknown to the Trojans wrapt Pergama in flames by its night-issuing brood of sons of the Greeks; so that you may clearly perceive that all actions from first to last exist not by themselves and are not by themselves in the way that body is, nor are terms of the same kind as void is, but are rather of such a kind that you may fairly call them accidents of body and of the room in which they severally go on.

Dunster: For when the poets sing of Helen's rape, or of the Trojan State subdued by war, we must not say that these things do exist now in themselves, since Time, irrevocably past, has long since swept away that race of men that were the cause of those events; for every act is either properly the event of things, or of the places where those things are done. Further, if things were not of matter formed, were there no place or space where things might act, the fire that burned in Paris' heart, blown up by love of Helen's beauty, had never raised the famous contests of a cruel war; nor had the wooden horse set Troy on fire, discharging from his belly in the night the armed Greeks: from whence you plainly see that actions do not of themselves subsist, as bodies do, nor are in nature such as is a void, but rather are more justly called the events of body, and of space, where things are carried on.

Latin: Denique Tyndaridem raptam belloque subactas Troiiugenas gentis cum dicunt esse, videndumst ne forte haec per se cogant nos esse fateri, quando ea saecla hominum, quorum haec eventa fuerunt, inrevocabilis abstulerit iam praeterita aetas; namque aliud terris, aliud regionibus ipsis eventum dici poterit quod cumque erit actum. denique materies si rerum nulla fuisset nec locus ac spatium, res in quo quaeque geruntur, numquam Tyndaridis forma conflatus amore ignis Alexandri Phrygio sub pectore gliscens clara accendisset saevi certamina belli nec clam durateus Troiianis Pergama partu inflammasset equos nocturno Graiiugenarum; perspicere ut possis res gestas funditus omnis non ita uti corpus per se constare neque esse nec ratione cluere eadem qua constet inane, sed magis ut merito possis eventa vocare corporis atque loci, res in quo quaeque gerantur.

Munro: Bodies again are partly first-beginnings of things, partly those which are formed of a union of first beginnings. But those which are first-beginnings of things no force can quench: they are sure to have the better by their solid body. Although it seems difficult to believe that aught can be found among things with a solid body. For the lightning of heaven passes through the walls of houses, as well as noise and voices; iron grows red-hot in the fire and stones burn with fierce heat and burst asunder the hardness of gold is broken up and dissolved by heat; the ice of brass melts vanquished by the flame; warmth and piercing cold ooze through silver, since we have felt both, as we held cups with the hand indue fashion and the water was poured down into them. So universally there is found to be nothing solid in things. But yet because true reason and the nature of things constrains, attend until we make clear in a few verses that there are such things as consist of solid and everlasting body, which we teach are seeds of things and first-beginnings, out of which the whole sum of things which now exists has been produced.

Dunster: Lastly, bodies are either the first seeds of things, or formed by the uniting of those seeds. The simple seeds of things no force can strain, their solid parts will never be subdued. Though it is difficult, I own, to think that any thing in nature can be found perfectly solid; for heaven's thunder passes through the walls of houses, just as sound or words; iron in the fire grows hot, and burning stones fly into pieces by the raging heat; the stiffness of the gold is loosed by fire, and made to run; the hard and solid brass, subdued by flames, dissolves; the heat and piercing cold passes through silver; both of these we find as in our hand we hold a cup, and at the top pour water hot or cold: so nothing wholly solid seems to be found in nature. But because reason and the fixed state of things oblige me, here, I beg, while in few verses we evince that there are beings that consist of solid and everlasting matter which we call the seeds, the first principles of things, from whence the whole of things begin to be.

Latin: Corpora sunt porro partim primordia rerum, partim concilio quae constant principiorum. sed quae sunt rerum primordia, nulla potest vis stinguere; nam solido vincunt ea corpore demum. etsi difficile esse videtur credere quicquam in rebus solido reperiri corpore posse. transit enim fulmen caeli per saepta domorum clamor ut ac voces, ferrum candescit in igni dissiliuntque fero ferventi saxa vapore; cum labefactatus rigor auri solvitur aestu, tum glacies aeris flamma devicta liquescit; permanat calor argentum penetraleque frigus, quando utrumque manu retinentes pocula rite sensimus infuso lympharum rore superne. usque adeo in rebus solidi nihil esse videtur. sed quia vera tamen ratio naturaque rerum cogit, ades, paucis dum versibus expediamus esse ea quae solido atque aeterno corpore constent, semina quae rerum primordiaque esse docemus, unde omnis rerum nunc constet summa creata.

Munro: [503] First of all then since there has been found to exist a two-fold and widely dissimilar nature of two things, that is to say of body and of place in which things severally go on, each of the two must exist for and by itself and quite unmixed. For wherever there is empty space which we call void, there body is not; wherever again body maintains itself, there empty void no wise exists. First bodies therefore are solid and without void.

Dunster: And, first, because we find two sorts of things unlike in nature, in themselves distinct, body and space, 'tis necessary each should be entire, and separate in itself; for where there is a space which we call void, there nothing is of body; so were body is, there nothing is of empty space: and therefore such things are as solids and first seeds, which nothing in them can admit of void.

Latin: Principio quoniam duplex natura duarum dissimilis rerum longe constare repertast, corporis atque loci, res in quo quaeque geruntur, esse utramque sibi per se puramque necessest. nam qua cumque vacat spatium, quod inane vocamus, corpus ea non est; qua porro cumque tenet se corpus, ea vacuum nequaquam constat inane. sunt igitur solida ac sine inani corpora prima.

Munro: Again since there is void in things begotten, solid matter must exist about this void, and no thing can be proved by true reason to conceal in its body and have within it void, unless you choose to allow that that which holds it in is solid. Again that can be nothing but a union of matter which can keep in the void of things. Matter therefore, which consists of a solid body, may be everlasting, though all things else are dissolved.

Dunster: Besides, because in all created things there is a void, 'tis necessary some solid matter should still include this void; nor can you prove, by any rule of reason, that any thing contains within itself an empty space, unless you will allow what holds it in is perfect solid; and this is nothing else but the close union of the first seeds, which bind and do confine within themselves this void. Matter therefore composed of solid parts eternal is, when all things else must die.

Latin: Praeterea quoniam genitis in rebus inanest, materiem circum solidam constare necessest; nec res ulla potest vera ratione probari corpore inane suo celare atque intus habere, si non, quod cohibet, solidum constare relinquas. id porro nihil esse potest nisi materiai concilium, quod inane queat rerum cohibere. materies igitur, solido quae corpore constat, esse aeterna potest, cum cetera dissoluantur.

Munro: Moreover, if there were no empty void, the universe would be solid; unless on the other hand there were certain bodies to fill up whatever places they occupied, the existing universe would be empty and void space. Therefore sure enough body and void are marked off in alternate layers, since the universe is neither of a perfect fulness nor a perfect void. There are therefore certain bodies which can vary void space with full. These can neither be broken in pieces by the stroke of blows from without nor have their texture undone by aught piercing to their core nor give way before any other kind of assault; as we have proved to you a little before. For without void nothing seems to admit of being crushed in or broken up or split in two by cutting, or of taking in wet or permeating cold or penetrating fire, by which all things are destroyed. And the more anything contains within it of void, the more thoroughly it gives way to the assault of these things. Therefore if first bodies are as I have shown solid and without void, they must be everlasting.

Dunster: Further, if there was no such thing as we call void, every thing would be solid; then again, unless there were some things solid to fill up the space they hold, all would be empty space. Body from space therefore is in itself distinct; for all is neither full, nor is all void; and therefore there are solid seeds which make a difference between full and space. These solid seeds by no force from without can be dissolved, nor can they be destroyed by being pierced within, nor made to yield by any other means, as proved before. For nothing can be bruised without a void, or broken or by force be cleft in two, or receive moisture, or the piercing cold, or searching fire which all things else destroys. And the more of void the solid seeds confine, the sooner when they are struck will they dissolve and fall to pieces; therefore, if these first seeds are solid, free from void, they, as I said, must be eternal, and from death secure.

Latin: Tum porro si nil esset quod inane vocaret, omne foret solidum; nisi contra corpora certa essent quae loca complerent quae cumque tenerent omne quod est spatium, vacuum constaret inane. alternis igitur ni mirum corpus inani distinctum, quoniam nec plenum naviter extat nec porro vacuum; sunt ergo corpora certa, quae spatium pleno possint distinguere inane. haec neque dissolui plagis extrinsecus icta possunt nec porro penitus penetrata retexi nec ratione queunt alia temptata labare; id quod iam supra tibi paulo ostendimus ante. nam neque conlidi sine inani posse videtur quicquam nec frangi nec findi in bina secando nec capere umorem neque item manabile frigus nec penetralem ignem, quibus omnia conficiuntur. et quo quaeque magis cohibet res intus inane, tam magis his rebus penitus temptata labascit. ergo si solida ac sine inani corpora prima sunt ita uti docui, sint haec aeterna necessest.

Munro: Again unless matter had been eternal, all things before this would have utterly returned to nothing and whatever things we see would have been born anew from nothing. But since I have proved above that nothing can be produced from nothing, and that what is begotten cannot be called to nothing, first-beginnings must be of an imperishable body, into which all things can be dissolved at their last hour, that there may be a supply of matter for the reproduction of things. Therefore first-beginnings are of solid singleness, and in no other way can they have been preserved through ages during infinite time past in order to reproduce things.

Dunster: Again, if matter had not been eternal, long before now all beings had returned to nothing, and each being we behold again had been restored from nothing; but, as before I proved, nothing from nothing can be made, and what was once in being can never to nothing be reduced; it follows, those first seeds must be composed of principles immortal, into which at last each being must dissolve, and thence supply an everlasting stock of matter to repair the things decayed. These first seeds therefore are solid and simple, else they could not last entire through ages past and infinite, to repair beings perished and dissolved.

Latin: Praeterea nisi materies aeterna fuisset, antehac ad nihilum penitus res quaeque redissent de nihiloque renata forent quae cumque videmus. at quoniam supra docui nil posse creari de nihilo neque quod genitumst ad nil revocari, esse inmortali primordia corpore debent, dissolui quo quaeque supremo tempore possint, materies ut subpeditet rebus reparandis. sunt igitur solida primordia simplicitate nec ratione queunt alia servata per aevom ex infinito iam tempore res reparare.

Munro: Again if nature had set no limit to the breaking of things, by this time the bodies of matter would have been so far reduced by the breaking of past ages that nothing could within a fixed time be conceived out of them and reach its utmost growth of being. For we see that anything is more quickly destroyed than again renewed; and therefore that which the long, the infinite duration of all bygone time had broken up demolished and destroyed, could never be reproduced in all remaining time. But now sure enough a fixed limit to their breaking has been set, since we see each thing renewed, and at the same time definite periods fixed for things each after its kind to reach the flower of their age.

Dunster: But still, if nature had prefixed no bounds in breaking things to pieces, the parts of matter, broken by every passing age, had been reduced so small that nothing could of them be formed that would in any time become mature; for things we see much sooner are dissolved than are again restored; and therefore what an infinite tract of ages past has broken, and separated and dissolved, in future time can never be repaired; so that certain bounds of breaking and dividing must be set, because we see each being is repaired, and stated times are fixed to ever thing in which it feels the flower of its age.

Latin: Denique si nullam finem natura parasset frangendis rebus, iam corpora materiai usque redacta forent aevo frangente priore, ut nihil ex illis a certo tempore posset conceptum summum aetatis pervadere finem. nam quidvis citius dissolvi posse videmus quam rursus refici; qua propter longa diei infinita aetas ante acti temporis omnis quod fregisset adhuc disturbans dissoluensque, numquam relicuo reparari tempore posset. at nunc ni mirum frangendi reddita finis certa manet, quoniam refici rem quamque videmus et finita simul generatim tempora rebus stare, quibus possint aevi contingere florem.

Munro: Moreover while the bodies of matter are most solid, it may yet be explained in what way all things which are formed soft, as air water earth fires, are so formed and by what force they severally go on, since once for all there is void mixed up in things. But on the other hand if the first-beginnings of things be soft, it cannot be explained out of what enduring basalt and iron can be produced; for their whole nature will utterly lack a first foundation to begin with. First-beginnings therefore are strong in solid singleness, and by a denser combination of these all things can be closely packed and exhibit enduring strength.

Dunster: And yet, though the first seeds of things are solid, all beings that are compounded, such as air and water, earth and fire, may be soft, (however made, or by what power formed) and from them be produced, because there is a void still mixed with things; and, on the contrary, if these first seeds were soft, what reason can there be assigned whence hardened flints and iron could be formed, for nature would want the proper principles to work upon; and therefore these first seeds must simple solids be, by whose union close and compact all things are bound up firm, and so display their strength and hardy force.

Latin: Huc accedit uti, solidissima materiai corpora cum constant, possint tamen omnia reddi, mollia quae fiunt, aer aqua terra vapores, quo pacto fiant et qua vi quaeque gerantur, admixtum quoniam semel est in rebus inane. at contra si mollia sint primordia rerum, unde queant validi silices ferrumque creari, non poterit ratio reddi; nam funditus omnis principio fundamenti natura carebit. sunt igitur solida pollentia simplicitate, quorum condenso magis omnia conciliatu artari possunt validasque ostendere viris.

Munro: Again if no limit has been set to the breaking of bodies, nevertheless the several bodies which go to things must survive from eternity up to the present time, not yet assailed by any danger. But since they are possessed of a frail nature, it is not consistent with this that they could have continued through eternity harassed through ages by countless blows.

Dunster: (Not in this location in this edition.)

Latin: Porro si nullast frangendis reddita finis corporibus, tamen ex aeterno tempore quaeque nunc etiam superare necessest corpora rebus, quae non dum clueant ullo temptata periclo. at quoniam fragili natura praedita constant, discrepat aeternum tempus potuisse manere innumerabilibus plagis vexata per aevom.

Munro: Again too since a limit of growing and sustaining life has been assigned to things each after its kind, and since by the laws of nature it stands decreed what they can each do and what they cannot do, and since nothing is changed, but all things are so constant that the different birds all in succession exhibit in their body the distinctive marks of their kind, they must sure enough have a body of unchangeable matter also. For if the first-beginnings of things could in any way be vanquished and changed, it would then be uncertain too what could and what could not rise into being, in short on what principle each thing has its powers defined, its deep-set boundary mark; nor could the generations reproduce so often each after its kind the nature habits, way of life and motions of the parents.

Dunster: Again, because each being in its kind has certain bounds prefixed to its increase, and to the preservation of its life, and since by nature's laws it is ordained to each how far their powers to act or not extend; since nothing changes, and every thing goes on as it began, each kind of birds, most steady in their course, shew the same colors painted on their wings, the principles of matter whence they spring must be fixed and unchangeable; if the seeds of things could change by any means, it would be unknown what could be formed, what not; by what means every being is limited, and stops short within the bounds it cannot break; nor could the course of time in every age, the nature, motion, diet, and the manners of the old sire impress upon the young.

Latin: Denique iam quoniam generatim reddita finis crescendi rebus constat vitamque tenendi, et quid quaeque queant per foedera naturai, quid porro nequeant, sancitum quando quidem extat, nec commutatur quicquam, quin omnia constant usque adeo, variae volucres ut in ordine cunctae ostendant maculas generalis corpore inesse, inmutabilis materiae quoque corpus habere debent ni mirum; nam si primordia rerum commutari aliqua possent ratione revicta, incertum quoque iam constet quid possit oriri, quid nequeat, finita potestas denique cuique qua nam sit ratione atque alte terminus haerens, nec totiens possent generatim saecla referre naturam mores victum motusque parentum.

Munro: [599] Then again since there is ever a bounding point to bodies, which appears to us to be a least, there ought in the same way to be a bounding point the least conceivable to that first body which already is beyond what our senses can perceive: that point sure enough is without parts and consists of a least nature and never has existed apart by itself and will not be able in future so to exist, since it is in itself a part of that other; and so a first and single part and then other and other similar parts in succession fill up in close serried mass the nature of the first body; and since these cannot exist by themselves, they must cleave to that from which they cannot in any way be torn. First-beginnings therefore are of solid singleness, massed together and cohering closely by means of least parts, not compounded out of a union of those parts, but, rather, strong in everlasting singleness. From them nature allows nothing to be torn, nothing further to be worn away, reserving them as seeds for things.

Dunster: Besides, because the utmost point or the extreme of every body something is the eye cannot discern, it is not made of parts, but is in nature what we call the least; which never exists of itself, divided from body, nor ever can, because it is the very first and last of something else. For 'tis by heaping up such parts as these, one by another, that complete the being of every body. Since then they can't subsist apart, and separate, they must needs stick close, nor be divided by the utmost force. These seeds therefore are in their nature solid, and simple, formed of smallest parts bound close; not tied together by united seeds of various kinds, but in themselves entire, eternally unmixed and pure, from which nature will suffer nothing to be forced or lessened, reserving them as first seeds, to form and to repair those things that die.

Latin: Tum porro quoniam est extremum quodque cacumen corporis illius, quod nostri cernere sensus iam nequeunt, id ni mirum sine partibus extat et minima constat natura nec fuit umquam per se secretum neque post hac esse valebit, alterius quoniamst ipsum pars primaque et una, inde aliae atque aliae similes ex ordine partes agmine condenso naturam corporis explent; quae quoniam per se nequeunt constare, necessest haerere unde queant nulla ratione revelli. sunt igitur solida primordia simplicitate, quae minimis stipata cohaerent partibus arte. non ex illorum conventu conciliata, sed magis aeterna pollentia simplicitate, unde neque avelli quicquam neque deminui iam concedit natura reservans semina rebus.

Munro: Again unless there shall be a least, the very smallest bodies will consist of infinite parts, inasmuch as the half of the half will always have a half and nothing will set bounds to the division.Therefore between the sum of things and the least of things what difference will there be? There will be no distinction at all; for how absolutely infinite soever the whole sum is, yet the things which are smallest will equally consist of infinite parts. Now since on this head true reason protests and denies that the mind can believe it, you must yield and admit that there exist such things as are possessed of no parts and are of a least nature. And since these exist, those first bodies also you must admit to be solid and everlasting.

Dunster: Again, suppose there was no least, the smallest bodies must be composed of parts boundless and infinite; the half of every being must then contain another half, so there would be no end of still dividing; and where would be the difference between the smallest and the largest bodies? None in the least; for though the whole be entirely infinite, yet bodies that are smallest would contain infinite parts alike, which, since true reason exclaims against, nor will allow the mind to give assent, you must, convinced, profess that there are bodies which are void of parts, and are by nature least; since such there are, you must admit them solid and eternal.

Latin: Praeterea nisi erit minimum, parvissima quaeque corpora constabunt ex partibus infinitis, quippe ubi dimidiae partis pars semper habebit dimidiam partem nec res praefiniet ulla. ergo rerum inter summam minimamque quod escit, nil erit ut distet; nam quamvis funditus omnis summa sit infinita, tamen, parvissima quae sunt, ex infinitis constabunt partibus aeque. quod quoniam ratio reclamat vera negatque credere posse animum, victus fateare necessest esse ea quae nullis iam praedita partibus extent et minima constent natura. quae quoniam sunt, illa quoque esse tibi solida atque aeterna fatendum.

Munro: Once more, if nature, creatress of things, had been wont to compel all things to be broken up into least parts, then too she would be unable to reproduce anything out of those parts, because those things which are enriched with no parts cannot have the properties which begetting matter ought to have, I mean the various entanglements, weights, blows, clashings, motions, by means of which things severally go on.

Dunster: Lastly, if nature, parent of things, had not compelled all things that perish then to be resolved into least parts, she could from them repair nothing that dies; for bodies that are formed of various parts can never be endued with properties, which the first seeds of things ought to possess, as union, weight, and force, agreement, motion, by which all things act. And yet, suppose that nature had allowed no end to bodies being divided, yet some bodies from eternity must have been, which by no force could ever be subdued. But bodies that are formed of brittle seeds, and to be broken, could not have remained for ages infinite, vexed as they have been with endless blows, but must have been dissolved.

Latin: Denique si minimas in partis cuncta resolvi cogere consuesset rerum natura creatrix, iam nihil ex illis eadem reparare valeret propterea quia, quae nullis sunt partibus aucta, non possunt ea quae debet genitalis habere materies, varios conexus pondera plagas concursus motus, per quas res quaeque geruntur.

Munro: For which reasons they who have held fire to be the matter of things and the sum to be formed out of fire alone, are seen to have strayed most widely from true reason.At the head of whom enters Heraclitus to do battle, famous for obscurity more among the frivolous than the earnest Greeks who seek the truth. For fools admire and like all things the more which they perceive to be concealed under involved language, and determine things to be true which can prettily tickle the ears and are varnished over with finely sounding phrase.

Dunster: Wherefore, those sages who have thought that fire is the first principle of things, and from that alone the whole is formed, do greatly err from the true rule of reason. The champion of these, Heraclitus, enters first the lists, more famed for dark expression among empty Greeks than with the wise, who search for truth; for none but fools admire, and love what they see couched in words abstruse; and that they take for truth which quaintly moves the ear, and painted over affects by witty jingling of the sound.

Latin: Quapropter qui materiem rerum esse putarunt ignem atque ex igni summam consistere solo, magno opere a vera lapsi ratione videntur. Heraclitus init quorum dux proelia primus, clarus <ob> obscuram linguam magis inter inanis quamde gravis inter Graios, qui vera requirunt; omnia enim stolidi magis admirantur amantque, inversis quae sub verbis latitantia cernunt, veraque constituunt quae belle tangere possunt auris et lepido quae sunt fucata sonore.

Munro: For I want to know how things can be so various, if they are formed out of fire one and unmixed: it would avail nothing for hot fire to be condensed or rarefied, if the same nature which the whole fire has belonged to the parts of fire as well. The heat would be more intense by compression of parts, more faint by their severance and dispersion. More than this you cannot think it in the power of such causes to effect, far less could so great a diversity of things come from mere density and rarity of fires.

Dunster: For how such various beings could arise, I ask, if formed from pure and real fire? To say that the hot fire is now condensed, and sometimes rarified, could nought avail; the several parts must still retain the nature of fire, the same which the fire had when whole; the heat would be more fierce, the parts condensed, more languid when divided and made rare. There's nothing more than this you can derive from causes such as these; much less so great variety of things can be produced from fire or flame, condensed or made rare.

Latin: Nam cur tam variae res possent esse, requiro, ex uno si sunt igni puroque creatae? nil prodesset enim calidum denserier ignem nec rare fieri, si partes ignis eandem naturam quam totus habet super ignis haberent. acrior ardor enim conductis partibus esset, languidior porro disiectis <dis>que supatis. amplius hoc fieri nihil est quod posse rearis talibus in causis, ne dum variantia rerum tanta queat densis rarisque ex ignibus esse.

Munro: Observe also, if they suppose void to be mixed up in things, fire may then be condensed and left rare; but because they see many things rise up in contradiction to them and shrink from leaving unmixed void in things, fearing the steep, they lose the true road, and do not perceive on the other hand that if void is taken from things, all things are condensed and, out of all things is formed one single body, which cannot briskly radiate anything from it, in the way heat-giving fire emits light and warmth, letting you see that it is not of closely compressed parts.

Dunster: Indeed, would they admit in things a void, fire then might be condensed or rarified; but this, because it contradicts their other schemes, they murmur at, and will allow in things no empty space: So, while they fear to grant this difficult truth, they lose the way that's right, nor do they see, by not allowing there is in things a void, all bodies would be dense, and out of all one only would be made, which could by force emit nothing without itself, as the hot fire emits both light and heat, which shews it is not composed of crowded parts, without a void.

Latin: Id quoque: si faciant admixtum rebus inane, denseri poterunt ignes rarique relinqui; sed quia multa sibi cernunt contraria quae sint et fugitant in rebus inane relinquere purum, ardua dum metuunt, amittunt vera viai nec rursum cernunt exempto rebus inane omnia denseri fierique ex omnibus unum corpus, nil ab se quod possit mittere raptim, aestifer ignis uti lumen iacit atque vaporem, ut videas non e stipatis partibus esse.

Munro: But if they haply think that in some other way fires maybe quenched in the union and change their body, you are to know that if they shall scruple on no side to do this, all heat sure enough will be utterly brought to nothing, and all things that are produced will be formed out of nothing. For whenever a thing changes and quits its proper limits, at once this change of state is the death of that which was before. Therefore something or other must needs be left to those fires of theirs undestroyed, that you may not have all things absolutely returning to nothing, and the whole store of things born anew and flourishing out of nothing. Since then in fact there are some most unquestionable bodies which always preserve the same nature, on whose going or coming and change of order things change their nature and bodies are transformed, you are to know that these first bodies of things are not of fire.For it would matter nothing that some should withdraw and go away and others should be added on and some should have their order changed, if one and all they yet retained the nature of heat; for whatever they produced would be altogether fire. But thus methinks it is: there are certain bodies whose clashings, motions, order, position, and shapes produce fires, and which by a change of, order change the nature of the things and do not resemble fire nor anything else which has the power of sending bodies to our senses and touching by its contact our sense of touch.

Dunster: But if they think that a fire in all its parts may be extinguished, and so its body change; if they insist that this may once be done, then the whole fire must be resolved to nothing, and things new-form from nothing must arise; for whatsoever is changed, and breaks the bounds of its first nature, dies, and is no more what must still remain whole and unhurt, lest things to nothing should perfectly return; and then revive, and should again from nothing be restored. But now, since there remain some certain seeds that keep their nature still the same, whose absence or their presence, and their change of order change the nature of compound bodies, you must not think that these first seeds are fiery; if they were, what would it signify what seeds are absent, or what retire, what others take their place, how others may their rank and order change, since all would still be in their nature fire, and beings formed from them must wholly be of fire? But, as I think, the case is thus: some certain seeds there are by whose concussion, motion, order, site, and figure, fire is formed; and when their order is changed, they change the nature of this fire; but these first seeds have nothing fiery in themselves, nor of such a nature are they as to send forth bodies to be perceived by sense, or be the object of our touch.

Latin: Quod si forte alia credunt ratione potesse ignis in coetu stingui mutareque corpus, scilicet ex nulla facere id si parte reparcent, occidet ad nihilum ni mirum funditus ardor omnis et <e> nihilo fient quae cumque creantur; nam quod cumque suis mutatum finibus exit, continuo hoc mors est illius quod fuit ante. proinde aliquid superare necesse est incolume ollis, ne tibi res redeant ad nilum funditus omnes de nihiloque renata vigescat copia rerum. Nunc igitur quoniam certissima corpora quaedam sunt, quae conservant naturam semper eandem, quorum abitu aut aditu mutatoque ordine mutant naturam res et convertunt corpora sese, scire licet non esse haec ignea corpora rerum. nil referret enim quaedam decedere, abire atque alia adtribui mutarique ordine quaedam, si tamen ardoris naturam cuncta tenerent; ignis enim foret omnimodis quod cumque crearet. verum, ut opinor, itast: sunt quaedam corpora, quorum concursus motus ordo positura figurae efficiunt ignis mutatoque ordine mutant naturam neque sunt igni simulata neque ulli praeterea rei quae corpora mittere possit sensibus et nostros adiectu tangere tactus.

Munro: Again to say that all things are fire and that no real thing except fire exists in the number of things, as this same man does, appears to be sheer dotage.For he himself takes his stand on the side of the senses to fight against the senses and shakes their authority, on which rests all our belief, ay from which this fire as he calls it is known to himself; for he believes that the senses can truly perceive fire, he does not believe they can perceive all other things which are not a whit less clear.Now this appears to me to be as false as it is foolish; for to what shall we appeal? What surer test can we have than the senses, whereby to note truth and falsehood?

Dunster: And now to say that every thing is fire, and no true thing in nature does exist but fire, as this man does, is madness all; he contradicts his senses by his sense, and overthrows those tests of truth by which all things are known: for 'tis by them we know what thing which he calls fire, and this sense concludes, it truly knows the nature of this fire; but then all other things it will deny, which equally are true. This is to me a vain and foolish way to judge; for to what shall we apply? And what can be more sure than our senses to us, by which we fully know falsehood and truth?

Latin: Dicere porro ignem res omnis esse neque ullam rem veram in numero rerum constare nisi ignem, quod facit hic idem, perdelirum esse videtur. nam contra sensus ab sensibus ipse repugnat et labefactat eos, unde omnia credita pendent, unde hic cognitus est ipsi quem nominat ignem; credit enim sensus ignem cognoscere vere, cetera non credit, quae nilo clara minus sunt. quod mihi cum vanum tum delirum esse videtur; quo referemus enim? quid nobis certius ipsis sensibus esse potest, qui vera ac falsa notemus?

Munro: Again why should any one rather abolish all things and choose to leave the single nature of heat, than deny that fires exist, while he allows any thing else to be? It seems to be equal madness to affirm either this or that.

Dunster: Besides, why any one should all things else disclaim, and only fire allow, or say there's no such thing as fire, and all things else allow, either of this is in vain, and equal madness to believe.

Latin: Praeterea quare quisquam magis omnia tollat et velit ardoris naturam linquere solam, quam neget esse ignis, <aliam> tamen esse relinquat? aequa videtur enim dementia dicere utrumque.

Munro: For these reasons they who have held that fire is the matter of things and that the sum can be formed out of fire, and they who have determined air to be the first-beginning in begetting things, and all who have held that water by itself alone forms things, or that earth produces all things and changes into all the different natures of things, appear to have strayed exceedingly wide of the truth; as well as they who make the first-beginnings of things twofold coupling air with fire and earth with water, and they who believe that all things grow out of four things, fire earth and air and water. Chief of whom is Agrigentine Empedocles: him within the three-cornered shores of its lands that island bore, about which the Ionian sea flows in large crankings, and splashes up brine from its green waves.Here the sea racing in its straitened froth divides by its waters the shores of Italia’s lands from the other’s coasts; here is wasteful Charybdis and here the rumblings of Aetna threaten anew to gather up such fury of flames, as again with force to belch forth the fires bursting from its throat and carry up to heaven once more the lightnings of flame.Now though this great country is seen to deserve in many ways the wonder of mankind and is held to be well worth visiting, rich in all good things, guarded by large force of men, yet seems it to have held within it nothing more glorious than this man, nothing more holy marvelous and dear.The verses too of his godlike genius cry with a loud voice and set forth in such wise his glorious discoveries that he hardly seems born of a mortal stock.

Dunster: Wherefore those sages who contend that fire is the first principle, and that of fire all things consist, and those who make the air the first seeds of bodies, and such who lay the water is the sole cause of beings, or that the Earth all things creates, and can infuse itself into the nature of all things, do strangely err, and wander wide from the truth. And so do those who doubt the first elements of things, and to produce all beings, join the air to fire, the earth to water, or believe that from all four all beings are produced, and spring from air, and water, earth and fire. The chief of these we rank Empedocles of Agrigentum, born in Sicily, the island famed for its three promontories, whose sides the Ionian sea flows all around, with mighty windings, from whose coast the sea, by a narrow Frith, divides the bounds of Italy. Here is the fierce Charybdis, here Aetna roars, and threatens loud to suck in flames of vengeance, with greater force to belch them out again, burst from his jaws, and throw the flashing fire high as the sky. This island, though renowned by men for many things, and worth their sight, rich in the best advantages of life, by mighty men defended, yet produced nothing more glorious than this one great man, nothing more venerable, admired, and dear. Besides his verse, that from his soul divine flows sweetly, so clearly proves, and so explains the noble secrets he has found, he seems scarce born of human race, but from the gods.

Latin: Quapropter qui materiem rerum esse putarunt ignem atque ex igni summam consistere posse, et qui principium gignundis aera rebus constituere aut umorem qui cumque putarunt fingere res ipsum per se terramve creare omnia et in rerum naturas vertier omnis, magno opere a vero longe derrasse videntur. adde etiam qui conduplicant primordia rerum aera iungentes igni terramque liquori, et qui quattuor ex rebus posse omnia rentur ex igni terra atque anima procrescere et imbri. quorum Acragantinus cum primis Empedocles est, insula quem triquetris terrarum gessit in oris, quam fluitans circum magnis anfractibus aequor Ionium glaucis aspargit virus ab undis angustoque fretu rapidum mare dividit undis Aeoliae terrarum oras a finibus eius. hic est vasta Charybdis et hic Aetnaea minantur murmura flammarum rursum se colligere iras, faucibus eruptos iterum vis ut vomat ignis ad caelumque ferat flammai fulgura rursum. quae cum magna modis multis miranda videtur gentibus humanis regio visendaque fertur rebus opima bonis, multa munita virum vi, nil tamen hoc habuisse viro praeclarius in se nec sanctum magis et mirum carumque videtur. carmina quin etiam divini pectoris eius vociferantur et exponunt praeclara reperta, ut vix humana videatur stirpe creatus.

Munro: Yet he and those whom we have mentioned above immeasurably inferior and far beneath him, although the authors of many excellent and godlike discoveries, they have given responses from so to say their hearts’ holy of holies with more sanctity and on much more grounds than the Pythia who speaks out from the tripod and laurel of Phoebus, have yet gone to ruin in the first-beginnings of things: it is there they have fallen, and, great themselves, great and heavy has been that fall; first because they have banished void from things and yet assign to them motions, and allow things soft and rare, air sun fire earth, living things and corn, and yet mix not up void in their body; next because they suppose that there is no limit to the division of bodies and no stop set to their breaking and that there exists no least at all in things; though we see that that is the bounding point of any thing which seems to be least to our senses, so that from this you may infer that because the things which you do not see have a bounding point, there is a least in them. Moreover since they assign soft first-beginnings of things, which we see to have birth and to be of a body altogether mortal, the sum of things must in that case revert to nothing and the store of things be born anew and flourish out of nothing: how wide now of the truth both these doctrines are you will already comprehend. In the next place these bodies are in many ways mutually hostile and poisonous; and therefore they will either perish when they have met, or will fly asunder just as we see, when a storm has gathered, lightnings and rains and winds fly asunder.

Dunster: Yet he, with others of inferior note we named before, remarkably, by great degrees, and much below him, though these have succeeded well in their search, and many things have found as if inspired, and have pronounced their oracles (from the most close recesses of their souls) much more divine, and founded more on reason than Pythia, sacred prophetess, from Tripod, or from Apollo's laurel ever spoke. Yet they have made sad havoc, when they search into the principles of things and fell with this great man's mistakes together with him. And first, because, denying there is void in bodies, they admit of motion, and allow that things are soft or rare; as the air, the sun, the fire, the earth, the creatures, fruits, and yet will mix no empty space in the contexture of bodies that are formed. And then they set no bounds to bodies being divided, nor will admit an end to blows that break their frame; nor will they grant that such a thing as least is found in bodies, when we plainly see that every being has a part, a point that utmost lies, and obvious to our sense, which is the least of all; and thence conclude, that utmost point is that same least in things too small to be discovered by the sight. Besides, these men make their principles of things consist in soft seeds, which we see are born, and altogether mortal in their frame; if so, the whole of things must have returned to nothing, and be again from thence restored; how distant both from truth you have heard before. And then such seeds are many times at war among themselves, and poison to each other, and so will perish in the attack, or fly scattered, as in a tempest we observe the thunder, and the showers and wind disperse.

Latin: Hic tamen et supra quos diximus inferiores partibus egregie multis multoque minores, quamquam multa bene ac divinitus invenientes ex adyto tam quam cordis responsa dedere sanctius et multo certa ratione magis quam Pythia quae tripodi a Phoebi lauroque profatur, principiis tamen in rerum fecere ruinas et graviter magni magno cecidere ibi casu. Primum quod motus exempto rebus inani constituunt et res mollis rarasque relinquunt aera solem ignem terras animalia frugis nec tamen admiscent in eorum corpus inane; deinde quod omnino finem non esse secandis corporibus facient neque pausam stare fragori nec prorsum in rebus minimum consistere qui<cquam>, cum videamus id extremum cuiusque cacumen esse quod ad sensus nostros minimum esse videtur, conicere ut possis ex hoc, quae cernere non quis extremum quod habent, minimum consistere <rerum>. Huc accedit item, quoniam primordia rerum mollia constituunt, quae nos nativa videmus esse et mortali cum corpore, funditus ut qui debeat ad nihilum iam rerum summa reverti de nihiloque renata vigescere copia rerum; quorum utrumque quid a vero iam distet habebis. Deinde inimica modis multis sunt atque veneno ipsa sibi inter se; quare aut congressa peribunt aut ita diffugient, ut tempestate coacta fulmina diffugere atque imbris ventosque videmus.

Munro: Again if all things are produced from four things and all again broken up into those things, how can they be called first-beginnings of things any more than things be called their first-beginnings, the supposition being reversed? For they are begotten time about and interchange color and their whole nature without ceasing.But if haply you suppose that the body of fire and of earth and air and the moisture of water meet in such a way that none of them in the union changes its nature, no thing I tell you can be then produced out of them, neither living thing northing with inanimate body, as a tree; in fact each thing amid the medley of this discordant mass will display its own nature and air will be seen to be mixed up with earth and heat to remain in union with moisture.But first-beginnings ought in begetting things to bring with them a latent and unseen nature in order that no thing stand out, to be in the way and prevent whatever is produced from having its own proper being.

Dunster: Lastly, if all things from four elements are formed, and into them are finally dissolved, why should they rather the first principles of things be called, than things the principles of them? For they are produced alternately, are ever changing their form and their whole nature mutually into each other; but if by chance you think the body of the fire and earth is joined, that air is joined to water, and this united, each element preserves its nature still entire; nothing from seeds like these could have been formed, not men, nor things inanimate, as trees: for every element in this various heap of matter, ever changing, would display its proper nature still; you'd see air mixed with the earth, and fire and water joined. But the first principles whence things are formed should be in nature close and undiscerned, that nothing might appear which should oppose or jar, and thus prevent the compound body from being uniform, and make it consist of parts dissimilar, confused and void.

Latin: Denique quattuor ex rebus si cuncta creantur atque in eas rursum res omnia dissoluuntur, qui magis illa queunt rerum primordia dici quam contra res illorum retroque putari? alternis gignuntur enim mutantque colorem et totam inter se naturam tempore ab omni. [fulmina diffugere atque imbris ventosque videmus.] sin ita forte putas ignis terraeque coire corpus et aerias auras roremque liquoris, nil in concilio naturam ut mutet eorum, nulla tibi ex illis poterit res esse creata, non animans, non exanimo cum corpore, ut arbos; quippe suam quicque in coetu variantis acervi naturam ostendet mixtusque videbitur aer cum terra simul et quodam cum rore manere. at primordia gignundis in rebus oportet naturam clandestinam caecamque adhibere, emineat ne quid, quod contra pugnet et obstet quo minus esse queat proprie quodcumque creatur.

Munro: Moreover they go back to heaven and its fires for a beginning, and first suppose that fire changes into air, next that from air water is begotten and earth is produced out of water, and that all in reverse order come back from earth, water first, next air, then heat, and that these cease not to interchange, to pass from heaven to earth, from earth to the stars of ether. All which first-beginnings must on no account do; since something unchangeable must needs remain over, that things may not utterly be brought back to nothing. For whenever a thing changes and quits its proper limits, at once this change of state is the death of that which was before. Wherefore since those things which we have mentioned a little before pass into a state of change, they must be formed out of others which cannot in any case be transformed, that you may not have things returning altogether to nothing. Why not rather hold that there are certain bodies possessed of such a nature, that, if they have haply produced fire, the same may, after a few have been taken away and a few added on and the order and motion changed, produce air; and that all other things may in the same way interchange with one another?

Dunster: Besides, philosophers like these derive their transmutation from celestial fire; and first, they make this fire change to air, from air is water formed, the earth from water; and then again, from earth these elements return, first water, then the air, then last the fire. Nor do these constant changes ever cease among themselves, but still proceed from heaven to earth, from earth to stars, that light the world. But the first seeds of things must by no means be thus disposed; for something immutable must needs remain, lest things should utterly to nothing be reduced: For whatsoever suffers change, by passing over the bounds of its first nature, dies, and is no more what it first was. Those elements therefore, which, as we said above, admit of change, must needs consist of other seeds which never can change at all, lest things should utterly to nothing be reduced: Then rather say, there are some certain principles in nature which are the seeds of fire, suppose, and some of these being taken away, or else by adding more, by changing of their order or their motion, they compose the air, and so all other beings may be produced by changes such as these.

Latin: Quin etiam repetunt a caelo atque ignibus eius et primum faciunt ignem se vertere in auras aeris, hinc imbrem gigni terramque creari ex imbri retroque a terra cuncta reverti, umorem primum, post aera, deinde calorem, nec cessare haec inter se mutare, meare a caelo ad terram, de terra ad sidera mundi. quod facere haud ullo debent primordia pacto. immutabile enim quiddam superare necessest, ne res ad nihilum redigantur funditus omnes; nam quod cumque suis mutatum finibus exit, continuo hoc mors est illius quod fuit ante. quapropter quoniam quae paulo diximus ante in commutatum veniunt, constare necessest ex aliis ea, quae nequeant convertier usquam, ne tibi res redeant ad nilum funditus omnis; quin potius tali natura praedita quaedam corpora constituas, ignem si forte crearint, posse eadem demptis paucis paucisque tributis, ordine mutato et motu, facere aeris auras, sic alias aliis rebus mutarier omnis?

Munro: “But plain matter of fact clearly proves” you say “that all things grow up into the air and are fed out of the earth; and unless the season at the propitious period send such abundant showers that the trees reel beneath the soaking storms of rain, and unless the sun on its part foster them and supply heat, corn, trees and living things could not grow.” Quite true, and unless solid food and soft water should recruit us, our substance would waste away and life break wholly up out of all the sinews and bones; for we beyond doubt are recruited and fed by certain things, this and that other thing by certain other things. Because many first-beginnings common to many things in many ways are mixed up in things, therefore sure enough different things are fed by different things. And it often makes a great difference with what things and in what position the same first beginnings are held in union and what motions they mutually impart and receive; for the same make up heaven sea lands rivers sun, the same make up corn trees and living things; but they are mixed up with different things and in different ways as they move.

Dunster: But you say, that common fact does clearly show that all things grow and rise into the air and are supported by the earth; and unless the season, in happy time, indulges rain, and shakes the trees with driving showers, unless the sun, on his part, cherishes and gives his heat, nor fruits, nor trees, nor creatures could increase. 'Tis true, but these are not first seeds; and we likewise, unless dry food and kindly juice preserve our bodies, they must perish, and every spark of life, out of our nerves and bones, must be extinct. We are upheld, no doubt, and nourished by certain means; and other things are staid by certain others; for many common principles of many things are mixed in each. And therefore, the various kinds of things we find supported in a different manner; but yet it much concerns with what, and in what order, these first seeds unite, and what motion they give and take among themselves; for the same seeds compose heaven, earth, the sea, the rivers, and the sun, the same compose the creatures, fruits, and trees, they differ only as they are moved by others, and as their mixture differs in themselves.

Latin: 'At manifesta palam res indicat' inquis 'in auras aeris e terra res omnis crescere alique; et nisi tempestas indulget tempore fausto imbribus, ut tabe nimborum arbusta vacillent, solque sua pro parte fovet tribuitque calorem, crescere non possint fruges arbusta animantis.' scilicet et nisi nos cibus aridus et tener umor adiuvet, amisso iam corpore vita quoque omnis omnibus e nervis atque ossibus exsoluatur; adiutamur enim dubio procul atque alimur nos certis ab rebus, certis aliae atque aliae res. ni mirum quia multa modis communia multis multarum rerum in rebus primordia mixta sunt, ideo variis variae res rebus aluntur. atque eadem magni refert primordia saepe cum quibus et quali positura contineantur et quos inter se dent motus accipiantque; namque eadem caelum mare terras flumina solem constituunt, eadem fruges arbusta animantis, verum aliis alioque modo commixta moventur.

Munro: Nay you see throughout even in these verses of ours many elements common to many words, though you must needs admit that the lines and words differ one from the other both in meaning and in sound wherewith they sound. So much can elements effect by a mere change of order; but those elements which are the first-beginnings of things can bring with them more combinations out of which different things can severally be produced.

Dunster: So in these lines of mine, the many letters you see are common to the make and form of many words; and yet, you must confess, the verses and the words are much unlike in sense and sound: Such is the force of letters, by change of order only. But the first seeds of things being more, must needs admit of changes more different; from whence proceeds that great variety of things we see produced.

Latin: Quin etiam passim nostris in versibus ipsis multa elementa vides multis communia verbis, cum tamen inter se versus ac verba necessest confiteare et re et sonitu distare sonanti. tantum elementa queunt permutato ordine solo; at rerum quae sunt primordia, plura adhibere possunt unde queant variae res quaeque creari.

Munro: Let us now also examine the homoeomeria of Anaxagoras as the Greeks term it, which the poverty of our native speech does not allow us to name in our own tongue; though it is easy enough to set forth in words the thing itself.

Dunster: Now, let us inquire into the homoeomery of Anaxagorus, the Greeks so call it, but the poverty of the Latin tongue will not allow us to express it; but yet, by a short periphrasis, we can explain that thing when he calls homoeomery, and makes the principle of bodies.

Latin: Nunc et Anaxagorae scrutemur homoeomerian quam Grai memorant nec nostra dicere lingua concedit nobis patrii sermonis egestas, sed tamen ipsam rem facilest exponere verbis.

Munro: First of all then, when he speaks of the homoeomeria of things, you must know he supposes bones to be formed out of very small and minute bones and flesh of very small and minute fleshes and blood by the coming together of many drops of blood, and gold he thinks can be composed of grains of gold and earth be a concretion of small earths, and fires can come from fires and water from waters, and everything else he fancies and supposes to be produced on a like principle. And yet at the same time he does not allow that void exists anywhere in things, or that there is a limit to the division of things. Wherefore he appears to me on both these grounds to be as much mistaken as those whom we have already spoken of above.

Dunster: For instance, bones proceed from small and little bones; and flesh is made of small and little bits of flesh; and blood is formed of many drops of blood flowing together; and gold, he thinks, consists of little grains of gold; and Earth grows firm by particles of earth; fire is made of fire; water from water springs; and all things else, he thinks, from causes such as these arise. And yet this man in no case will allow in things a void, nor that there is an end to bodies being divided: he equally mistakes in both, and so do those sages spoken of before.

Latin: Principio, rerum quam dicit homoeomerian, ossa videlicet e pauxillis atque minutis ossibus hic et de pauxillis atque minutis visceribus viscus gigni sanguenque creari sanguinis inter se multis coeuntibus guttis ex aurique putat micis consistere posse aurum et de terris terram concrescere parvis, ignibus ex ignis, umorem umoribus esse, cetera consimili fingit ratione putatque. nec tamen esse ulla de parte in rebus inane concedit neque corporibus finem esse secandis. quare in utraque mihi pariter ratione videtur errare atque illi, supra quos diximus ante.

Munro: Moreover, the first-beginnings which he supposes are too frail; if first-beginnings they be which are possessed of a nature like to the things themselves and are just as liable to suffering and death, and which nothing reins back from destruction. For which of them will hold out, so as to escape death, beneath so strong a pressure within the very jaws of destruction? Fire or water or air? Which of these? Blood or bones? Not one methinks, where everything will be just as essentially mortal as those things which we see with the senses’ perish before our eyes vanquished by some force.But I appeal to facts demonstrated above for proof that things cannot fall away to nothing nor on the other hand grow from nothing.

Dunster: Besides, the seeds he chose are much too weak, if of the same frail nature they consist, as do the things themselves, they equally fall to decay, and perish, nothing hinders them from death: for which of these can long hold out against the fierce jaws of death, and so escape destruction, crushed between his very teeth? Can fire? Can Air? Can water? Which of these? Can blood? Can bone? In my opinion none. All things in nature then would be equally liable to death, as are such things we see before our eyes by any force destroyed. But this, I think, is fully proved before, that nothing can fall to nothing, or from nothing rise.

Latin: Adde quod inbecilla nimis primordia fingit; si primordia sunt, simili quae praedita constant natura atque ipsae res sunt aequeque laborant et pereunt, neque ab exitio res ulla refrenat. nam quid in oppressu valido durabit eorum, ut mortem effugiat, leti sub dentibus ipsis? ignis an umor an aura? quid horum? sanguen an ossa? nil ut opinor, ubi ex aequo res funditus omnis tam mortalis erit quam quae manifesta videmus ex oculis nostris aliqua vi victa perire. at neque reccidere ad nihilum res posse neque autem crescere de nihilo testor res ante probatas.

Munro: Again since food gives increase and nourishment to the body, you are to know that our veins and blood and bones \[and the like are formed of things foreign to them in kind\]; or if they shall say that all foods are of a mixed body and contain in them small bodies of sinews and bones and veins as well and particles of blood, it will follow that all food, solid as well as liquid, must be held to be composed of things foreign to them in kind, of bones that is and sinews and matter and blood mixed up. Again if all the bodies which grow out of the earth, are in the earths, the earth must be composed of things foreign to it in kind which grow out of these earths. Apply again this reasoning to other things, and you may use just the same words. If flame and smoke and ash are latent in woods, woods must necessarily be composed of things foreign to them in kind. Again all those bodies, to which the earth gives food, it increases \[out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of the earth: thus too the bodies of flame which issue from the woods, are fed\] out of things foreign to them in kind which rise out of these woods.

Dunster: Besides, since food increases and supports the body, then we know the veins, the blood, the bones, consist of heterogeneous and parts dissimilar, as does our food. But if they say all food consists of parts various and mixed, and in itself contains the little strings of nerves and bones, and all the veins and parts of blood, then all dry meat and drink must needs consist of parts dissimilar, of bones, of nerves, of veins, and mingled blood. Further, if all things which grow from the Earth are in the Earth contained, the earth must consist of parts dissimilar, as do those things from which the earth arise. Now change the theme, but keep the terms the same; in wood if flame and smoke, and ashes lay concealed, then wood must needs consist of parts of different frame.

Latin: Praeterea quoniam cibus auget corpus alitque, scire licet nobis venas et sanguen et ossa sive cibos omnis commixto corpore dicent esse et habere in se nervorum corpora parva ossaque et omnino venas partisque cruoris, fiet uti cibus omnis et aridus et liquor ipse ex alienigenis rebus constare putetur, ossibus et nervis sanieque et sanguine mixto. Praeterea quae cumque e terra corpora crescunt, si sunt in terris, terram constare necessest ex alienigenis, quae terris exoriuntur. transfer item, totidem verbis utare licebit: in lignis si flamma latet fumusque cinisque, ex alienigenis consistant ligna necessest, [praeterea tellus quae corpora cumque alit auget] ex alienigenis, quae lignis <ex>oriuntur.

Munro: Here some slight opening is left for evasion, which Anaxagoras avails himself of, choosing to suppose that all things though latent are mixed up in things, and that is alone visible of which there are the largest number of bodies in the mixture and these more ready to hand and stationed in the first rank. This however is far banished from true reason. For then it were natural that corn too should often, when crushed by the formidable force of the stone, show some mark of blood or some other of the things which have their nourishment in our body. For like reasons it were fitting that from grasses too, when we rub them between two stones, blood should ooze out; that waters should yield sweet drops, in flavor like to the udder of milk in sheep; yes and that often, when clods of earth have been crumbled, kinds of grasses and corn and leaves should be found to lurk distributed among the earth in minute quantities; and lastly that ash and smoke and minute fires should be found latent in woods, when they were broken off. Now since plain matter of fact teaches that none of these results follows, you are to know that things are not so mixed up in things; but rather seeds common to many things must in many ways be mixed up and latent in things.

Dunster: But here a thin evasion seems to shake this argument a little; and Anaxagorus himself makes use of it: he thinks all things are mixed with all things and lie hid, but that one thing only appears, of which it most abounds, and on the surface lies; but this reply is vain, and wide from truth, for then the little grains of corn, when ground, would show some signs of blood, or of some other parts which form our bodies; and when we wear the stones, the blood would flow. But the like reason herbs would sweat sweet drops of liquor, so delightful to the taste as flow from dugs of woolly sheep, and clods of crumbled earth would show the various kinds of fruits and herbs, and leaves distinct and hid in smallest particles within the earth. And then, in wood divided, might be seen concealed ashes and smoke, and smallest parts of fire. But since experience shows nothing of this appears, we must conclude there's no such mixture as this in things; but say, that common seeds of many things in various order joined, are mixed in every thing, and lie concealed.

Latin: Linquitur hic quaedam latitandi copia tenvis, id quod Anaxagoras sibi sumit, ut omnibus omnis res putet inmixtas rebus latitare, sed illud apparere unum, cuius sint plurima mixta et magis in promptu primaque in fronte locata. quod tamen a vera longe ratione repulsumst; conveniebat enim fruges quoque saepe, minaci robore cum in saxi franguntur, mittere signum sanguinis aut aliquid, nostro quae corpore aluntur. cum lapidi in lapidem terimus, manare cruorem consimili ratione herbis quoque saepe decebat, et latices dulcis guttas similique sapore mittere, lanigerae quali sunt ubere lactis, scilicet et glebis terrarum saepe friatis herbarum genera et fruges frondesque videri dispertita inter terram latitare minute, postremo in lignis cinerem fumumque videri, cum praefracta forent, ignisque latere minutos. quorum nil fieri quoniam manifesta docet res, scire licet non esse in rebus res ita mixtas, verum semina multimodis inmixta latere multarum rerum in rebus communia debent.

Munro: “But it often comes to pass on high mountains” you say “that contiguous tops of tall trees rub together, the strong south winds constraining them so to do, until the flower of flame has broken out and they have burst into a blaze.” Quite true, and yet fire is not innate in woods; but there are many seeds of heat, and when they by rubbing have streamed together, they produce conflagrations in the forests. But if the flame was stored up ready made in the forests, the fire could not be concealed for any length of time, but would destroy forests, burn up trees indiscriminately. Do you now see, as we said a little before, that it often makes a very great difference with what things and in what position the same first beginnings are held in union and what motions they mutually impart and receive, and that the same may, when a little changed in arrangement produce say fires and a fir? Just as the words too consist of elements only a little changed in arrangement, though we denote firs and fires with two quite distinct names.

Dunster: But often, you say, upon the mountain tops, the heads of lofty trees that grow together are by the violent blasts of forcing winds so rubbed by close collision that they soon are all on fire, and flames shine out. 'Tis true, and yet there's no actual fire within the wood, but many seeds of fire, which by hard rubbing ignite, and so the wood is all in flames. For if so much of fire had lain concealed within the wood, this fire would have appeared immediately, and so consumed the wood entirely, and burnt its root branches to the ground. You see therefore of what concern it is, as we observed before, with what first principles those seeds are joined, and in what order placed, and what the motions are they give and take among themselves, and how the seeds remaining ever the same, but yet their order changed, produce a fire from wood; just as we write ignis and lignum, though quite different words, they are yet composed of letters much the same.

Latin: At saepe in magnis fit montibus' inquis 'ut altis arboribus vicina cacumina summa terantur inter se validis facere id cogentibus austris, donec flammai fulserunt flore coorto.' scilicet et non est lignis tamen insitus ignis, verum semina sunt ardoris multa, terendo quae cum confluxere, creant incendia silvis. quod si facta foret silvis abscondita flamma, non possent ullum tempus celarier ignes, conficerent volgo silvas, arbusta cremarent. iamne vides igitur, paulo quod diximus ante, permagni referre eadem primordia saepe cum quibus et quali positura contineantur et quos inter se dent motus accipiantque, atque eadem paulo inter se mutata creare ignes et lignum? quo pacto verba quoque ipsa inter se paulo mutatis sunt elementis, cum ligna atque ignes distincta voce notemus.

Munro: Once again, if you suppose that whatever you perceive among visible things cannot be produced without imagining bodies of matter possessed of a like nature, in this way you will find the first-beginnings of things are destroyed: it will come to this that they will be shaken by loud fits of convulsive laughter and will bedew with salt tears face and cheeks.

Dunster: Lastly, if things most obvious to the sense, you think, cannot be formed unless you make their seeds consist of principles the same in nature, those principles would be destroyed; you'd see some seeds would shake their little sides with laughing, and some bedew their face with tears.

Latin: Denique iam quae cumque in rebus cernis apertis si fieri non posse putas, quin materiai corpora consimili natura praedita fingas, hac ratione tibi pereunt primordia rerum: fiet uti risu tremulo concussa cachinnent et lacrimis salsis umectent ora genasque.

Munro: Now mark and learn what remains to be known and hear it more distinctly.Nor does my mind fail to perceive how dark the things are; but the great hope of praise has smitten my heart with sharp thyrsus, and at the same time has struck into my breast sweet love of the muses, with which now inspired I traverse in blooming thought the pathless haunts of the Pierides never yet trodden by sole of man. I love to approach the untasted springs and to quaff, I love to cull fresh flowers and gather for my head a distinguished crown from spots whence the muses have yet veiled the brows of none; first because I teach of great things and essay to release the mind from the fast bonds of religious scruples, and next because on a dark subject I pen such lucid verses overlaying all with the muses’ charm. For that too would seem to be not without good grounds: just as physicians when they purpose to give nauseous wormwood to children, first smear the rim round the bowl with the sweet yellow juice of honey, that the unthinking age of children may be fooled as far as the lips, and meanwhile drink up the bitter draught of wormwood and though beguiled yet not be betrayed, but rather by such means recover health and strength; so I now, since this doctrine seems generally somewhat bitter to those by whom it has not been handled, and the multitude shrinks back from it in dismay, have resolved to set forth to you our doctrine in sweet-toned Pierian verse and overlay it as it were with the pleasant honey of the muses, if haply by such means I might engage your mind on my verses, till you clearly perceive the whole nature of things, its shape and frame.

Dunster: Now, what remains observe, attend me close; I know my theme is dark, but the great love of praise pricks on my heart with sharpest spurs, and strikes my soul at once with sweet desire of the most tuneful Nine; but this urged on, my mind in rapture, I haunt the Muses' seats, of difficult access, and yet untrod; I love to approach the purest springs, and thence to draw large draughts. I love to crop fresh flowers, and make a noble garland for my head; from thence, where yet the Muses never bound another's temples with a crown like mine. And first, I write of lofty things, and strive to free the mind from the severest bonds of when men call religion; then my verse I frame so clear, although my theme be dark, seasoning my lines with the poetic sweets of fancy, and reason justifies the method. For as the physicians, when they would prevail on children to take down a bitter draught of wormwood, first tinge the edges of the cup, that so the children's unsuspecting age may be deceived, at least their lips, and take the bitter juice, thus harmlessly betrayed, but not abused, they have their health restored: So I, because this system seems severe and harsh, to such who have not yet discerned its truth, and the common herd are utterly averse to this philosophy, I thought it fit to show the rigid principles in verse smooth and alluring, and tinge them, as it were, with sweet poetic honey, thus to charm thy mind with my soft numbers, till you view the nature of all things clearly, and perceive the figure and order they display.

Latin: Nunc age, quod super est, cognosce et clarius audi. nec me animi fallit quam sint obscura; sed acri percussit thyrso laudis spes magna meum cor et simul incussit suavem mi in pectus amorem Musarum, quo nunc instinctus mente vigenti avia Pieridum peragro loca nullius ante trita solo. iuvat integros accedere fontis atque haurire iuvatque novos decerpere flores insignemque meo capiti petere inde coronam, unde prius nulli velarint tempora Musae; primum quod magnis doceo de rebus et artis religionum animum nodis exsolvere pergo, deinde quod obscura de re tam lucida pango carmina musaeo contingens cuncta lepore. id quoque enim non ab nulla ratione videtur; sed vel uti pueris absinthia taetra medentes cum dare conantur, prius oras pocula circum contingunt mellis dulci flavoque liquore, ut puerorum aetas inprovida ludificetur labrorum tenus, interea perpotet amarum absinthi laticem deceptaque non capiatur, sed potius tali facto recreata valescat, sic ego nunc, quoniam haec ratio plerumque videtur tristior esse quibus non est tractata, retroque volgus abhorret ab hac, volui tibi suaviloquenti carmine Pierio rationem exponere nostram et quasi musaeo dulci contingere melle, si tibi forte animum tali ratione tenere versibus in nostris possem, dum perspicis omnem naturam rerum, qua constet compta figura.

Munro: But since I have taught that most solid bodies of matter fly about for ever unvanquished through all time, mark now, let us unfold whether there is or is not any limit to their sum; likewise let us clearly see whether that which has been found to be void, or room and space, in which things severally go on, is all of it altogether finite or stretches without limits and to an unfathomable depth.

Dunster: But since I taught the principles of matter are solid, are eternal, evermoving, nor are destroyed; now, come, let us inquire whether they have an end, or are by nature infinite: and since we have found a void or place, or space in which all things are moved, let us now see whether the universe, made up of void and body, be circumscribed, or does to a profound immensity extend.

Latin: Sed quoniam docui solidissima materiai corpora perpetuo volitare invicta per aevom, nunc age, summai quaedam sit finis eorum nec<ne> sit, evolvamus; item quod inane repertumst seu locus ac spatium, res in quo quaeque gerantur, pervideamus utrum finitum funditus omne constet an immensum pateat vasteque profundum.

Munro: Well then, the existing universe is bounded in none of its dimensions; for then it must have had an outside. Again it is seen that there can be an outside of nothing, unless there be something beyond to bound it, so that that is seen, farther than which the nature of this our sense does not follow the thing. Now since we must admit that there is nothing outside the sum, it has no outside, and therefore is without end and limit.And it matters not in which of its regions you take your stand; so invariably, whatever position any one has taken up, he leaves the universe just as infinite as before in all directions.

Dunster: This All, therefore, does not admit of bounds; for if it did, then it must have something extreme: Now, no extreme can be, unless it lies beyond those things whose bounds, or whose extreme it is, from whence they may be seen, and beyond which our faculty of sight can reach no further. Now since we must own, that nothing can be beyond the All, this All has therefore no extreme, it has no ends, no bounds; nor does it signify what spot of this great All you stand upon; for on what part soever you are fixed, you have a wide and infinite space around you every way.

Latin: Omne quod est igitur nulla regione viarum finitumst; namque extremum debebat habere. extremum porro nullius posse videtur esse, nisi ultra sit quod finiat, ut videatur quo non longius haec sensus natura sequatur. nunc extra summam quoniam nihil esse fatendum, non habet extremum, caret ergo fine modoque. nec refert quibus adsistas regionibus eius; usque adeo, quem quisque locum possedit, in omnis tantundem partis infinitum omne relinquit.

Munro: Again if for the moment all existing space be held to be bounded, supposing a man runs forward to its outside borders, and stands on the utmost verge and then throws a winged javelin, do you choose that when hurled with vigorous force it shall advance to the point to which it has been sent and fly to a distance, or do you decide that something can get in its way and stop it? For you must admit and adopt one of the two suppositions; either of which shuts you out from all escape and compels you to grant that the universe stretches without end. For whether there is something to get in its way and prevent its coming whither it was sent and placing itself in the point intended, or whether it is carried forward, in either case it has not started from the end. In this way I will go on and, wherever you have placed the outside borders, I will ask what then becomes of the javelin. The result will be that an end can nowhere be fixed, and that the room given for flight will still prolong the power of flight. Lastly one thing is seen by the eyes to end another thing; air bounds off hills, and mountains air, earth limits sea and sea again all lands; the universe however there is nothing outside to end.

Dunster: But if this wide extent of space be finite and circumscribed, let a man stand upon the utmost verge, and from thence throw a dart, whether you choose this dart, with mighty force thus cast, should reach the mark designed, and fly swift on, or whether you think that something should hinder or oppose its flight, and one of these you must confess; now either way you are caught, and can't escape: You are forced to own this All lies wide extended without bounds. For whether there be something that does hinder and stop its flight, so that it cannot reach the mark designed, and there rest still and fixed; or whether it flies forward, there this end you cannot fix: for if it stops, then something must lie beyond the utmost verge; and if it flies, there is a space beyond the extremist brink. And thus I follow close, and wheresoever you place the extremes bounds, I still demand what comes of your dart? So that no bounds can anywhere be fixed, but space immense will always give a passage to its flight.

Latin: Praeterea si iam finitum constituatur omne quod est spatium, si quis procurrat ad oras ultimus extremas iaciatque volatile telum, id validis utrum contortum viribus ire quo fuerit missum mavis longeque volare, an prohibere aliquid censes obstareque posse? alterutrum fatearis enim sumasque necessest. quorum utrumque tibi effugium praecludit et omne cogit ut exempta concedas fine patere. nam sive est aliquid quod probeat efficiatque quo minus quo missum est veniat finique locet se, sive foras fertur, non est a fine profectum. hoc pacto sequar atque, oras ubi cumque locaris extremas, quaeram: quid telo denique fiet? fiet uti nusquam possit consistere finis effugiumque fugae prolatet copia semper.

Munro: Again if all the space of the whole sum were enclosed within fixed borders and were bounded, in that case the store of matter by its solid weights would have streamed together from all sides to the lowest point nor could anything have gone on under the canopy of heaven, no nor would there have been a heaven nor sunlight at all, inasmuch as all matter, settling down through infinite time past, would lie together in a heap. But as it is, sure enough no rest is given to the bodies of the first-beginnings, because there is no lowest point at all, to which they might stream together as it were, and where they might take up their positions. All things are ever going on in ceaseless motion on all sides and bodies of matter stirred to action are supplied from beneath out of infinite space.

Dunster: Besides, were this All's extended space shut up by certain bounds in every side, and was by nature finite, then this mass of matter, pressed by its solid weight, had long ere now sunk to the lowest place, and therefore nothing under the vault of heaven could have a being, nor could there be heavens at all, or the sun's light. For then the seeds of things that had been sinking from all eternity would in confusion lie on heaps; by now the principles of bodies having no rest at all, are ever moving, because there's no such thing as lowest place, to which they may descend, no fixed abode where they should rest; but things are ever carried by motion never-ending, through every part of this vast All, from whence the active seeds of things arise, and are eternally supplied.

Latin: Praeterea spatium summai totius omne undique si inclusum certis consisteret oris finitumque foret, iam copia materiai undique ponderibus solidis confluxet ad imum nec res ulla geri sub caeli tegmine posset nec foret omnino caelum neque lumina solis, quippe ubi materies omnis cumulata iaceret ex infinito iam tempore subsidendo. at nunc ni mirum requies data principiorum corporibus nullast, quia nil est funditus imum, quo quasi confluere et sedes ubi ponere possint. semper in adsiduo motu res quaeque geruntur partibus <in> cunctis, infernaque suppeditantur ex infinito cita corpora materiai.

Munro: (No equivalent in this edition)

Dunster: [998] Further, we see one thing bounds another; the air bounds in the hills, the hills the air, the earth shuts up the sea, and then again the sea surrounds the earth; but this great All nothing exterior to itself can bind.

Latin: Postremo ante oculos res rem finire videtur; aer dissaepit collis atque aera montes, terra mare et contra mare terras terminat omnis; omne quidem vero nihil est quod finiat extra.

Munro: Therefore the nature of room and the space of the unfathomable void are such as bright thunderbolts cannot race through in their course though gliding on through endless tract of time, no nor lessen one jot the journey that remains to go by all their travel: so huge a room is spread out on all sides for things without any bounds in all directions round.

Dunster: For the nature of this place, this empty space, is such, that rivers of the swiftest stream, were they to run for ages infinite, with a perpetual current, could not run through it, or ever by their running prove that they had less of their course to run; so vastly wide this mighty space of things extended lies on all sides, every way, without all bounds.

Latin: Est igitur natura loci spatiumque profundi, quod neque clara suo percurrere fulmina cursu perpetuo possint aevi labentia tractu nec prorsum facere ut restet minus ire meando; usque adeo passim patet ingens copia rebus finibus exemptis in cunctas undique partis.

Munro: Again nature keeps the sum of things from setting any limit to itself, since she compels body to be ended by void and void in turn by body, so that either she thus renders the universe infinite by this alternation of the two, or else the one of the two, incase the other does not bound it, with its single nature stretches nevertheless immeasurably. But void I have already proved to be infinite; therefor matter must be infinite: for if void were infinite, and matter finite\] neither sea nor earth nor the glittering quarters of heaven nor mortal kind nor the holy bodies of the gods could hold their ground one brief passing hour; since forced asunder from its union the store of matter would be dissolved and borne along the mighty void, or rather I should say would never have combined to produce any thing, since scattered abroad it could never have been brought together.

Dunster: Besides, the laws of nature do provide, that this universe of things will not admit of limits to itself, because body is bound to void, and void a bound to body; and by this mutual termination it is, that this great All becomes immense; for were not each a bound until the other, were body not a limit set to void, the void would be infinite, and all finite bodies would be dissolved, and so nor sea, nor earth, nor the bright heavens, nor mortal race of men, nor sacred bodies of gods could be one moment of an hour; for the seeds of bodies being disunited in themselves, would fly, and quite dissolved, be carried through the void; or rather, being never joined, had formed no being; for once scattered through this space, they could not be compelled to join again.

Latin: Ipsa modum porro sibi rerum summa parare ne possit, natura tenet, quae corpus inane et quod inane autem est finiri corpore cogit, ut sic alternis infinita omnia reddat, aut etiam alterutrum, nisi terminet alterum eorum, simplice natura pateat tamen inmoderatum, nec mare nec tellus neque caeli lucida templa nec mortale genus nec divum corpora sancta exiguum possent horai sistere tempus; nam dispulsa suo de coetu materiai copia ferretur magnum per inane soluta, sive adeo potius numquam concreta creasset ullam rem, quoniam cogi disiecta nequisset.

Munro: For verily not by design did the first beginnings of things station themselves each in its right place guided by keen intelligence, nor did they bargain sooth to say what motions each should assume, but because many in number and shifting about in many ways throughout the universe they are driven and tormented by blows during infinite time past, after trying motions and unions of every kind at length they fall into arrangements such as those out of which this our sum of things has been formed, and by which too, it is preserved through many great years when once it has been thrown into the appropriate motions, and causes the streams to replenish the greedy sea with copious river waters and the earth, fostered by the heat of the sun, to renew its produce, and the race of living things to come up and flourish, and the gliding fires of ether to live: all which these several things could in nowise bring to pass, unless a store of matter could rise up from infinite space, out of which store they are wont to make up in due season whatever has been lost.

Dunster: For certainly the principles of things could never range themselves in form or order, by counsel, or by wisdom of the mind, nor any compact make how each should move; but being changed in various forms, and struck with many blows, they are driven through this void for many ages, and having tried all kinds of motion, and of union, they at length by chance are so disposed to frame those bodies of which this Universe of things consists. And these seeds once thrown into convenient motions, and keeping in the same for many ages, is the true cause that rivers, with a large supply of waters from their streams, fill up the greedy sea, and the earth, supported by the sun's heat, renews the fruits, and the race of living creatures flourish, and the rolling stars of heaven are kept alive; all which could never be, if from this infinite mass a supply of seeds flowed not, from whence decaying things might rise, and live, and be from age to age repaired.

Latin: Nam certe neque consilio primordia rerum ordine se suo quaeque sagaci mente locarunt nec quos quaeque <darent motus pepigere profecto> sed quia multa modis multis mutata per omne ex infinito vexantur percita plagis, omne genus motus et coetus experiundo tandem deveniunt in talis disposituras, qualibus haec rerum consistit summa creata, et multos etiam magnos servata per annos ut semel in motus coniectast convenientis, efficit ut largis avidum mare fluminis undis integrent amnes et solis terra vapore fota novet fetus summissaque gens animantum floreat et vivant labentis aetheris ignes. quod nullo facerent pacto, nisi materiai ex infinito suboriri copia posset, unde amissa solent reparare in tempore quaeque.

Munro: For as the nature of living things when robbed of food loses its substance and wastes away, thus all things must be broken up, as soon as matter has ceased to be supplied, diverted in any way from its proper course. Nor can blows from without hold together all the sum which has been brought into union.They can it is true frequently strike upon and stay a part, until others come and the sum can be completed.At times however they are compelled to rebound and in so doing grant to the first beginnings of things room and time for flight, to enable them to get clear away from the mass in union. Wherefore again and again I repeat many bodies must rise up; nay for the blows themselves not to fail, there is need of an infinite supply of matter on all sides.

Dunster: For as the animal creation, deprived of food, must perish, and their bodies be quite destroyed, so things must be dissolved as soon as matter, turning from its course, fails to afford supply, and save the whole. Nor, as some may object, can outward blows on all sides given, preserve this All of things we see compounded, from falling into pieces: They may indeed beat thick, and stay some part, till other atoms come, and so supply the universe. But often they are compelled to bound, and leap back, and so afford the seeds both time and place to fly away, and thus to get their former liberty again. Therefore, 'tis fit that many seeds should still arise, from time to time, for a supply; and that these blows might never cease to beat, the force of matter must be on all sides infinite.

Latin: Nam vel uti privata cibo natura animantum diffluit amittens corpus, sic omnia debent dissolui simul ac defecit suppeditare materies aliqua ratione aversa viai. nec plagae possunt extrinsecus undique summam conservare omnem, quae cumque est conciliata. cudere enim crebro possunt partemque morari, dum veniant aliae ac suppleri summa queatur; inter dum resilire tamen coguntur et una principiis rerum spatium tempusque fugai largiri, ut possint a coetu libera ferri. quare etiam atque etiam suboriri multa necessest, et tamen ut plagae quoque possint suppetere ipsae, infinita opus est vis undique materiai.

Munro: And herein, Memmius, be far from believing this, that all things as they say press to the center of the sum, and that for this reason the nature of the world stands fast without any strokes from the outside and the uppermost and lowest parts cannot part asunder in any direction, because all things have been always pressing towards the center (if you can believe that anything can rest upon itself); or that the heavy bodies which are beneath the earth all press upwards and are at rest on the earth, turned topsy-turvy, just like the images of things we see before us in the waters. In the same way they maintain that living things walk head downwards and cannot tumble out of earth into the parts of heaven lying below them any more than our bodies can spontaneously fly into the quarters of heaven; that when those see the sun, we behold the stars of night; and that they share with us time about the seasons of heaven and pass nights equal in length to our days.

Dunster: In these inquiries, see that you avoid, my Memmius, to believe with some that say, all bodies strive to reach the middle place of this great All, and so the nature of the world stands fixed, not struck at all by outward blows; nor can the upper or lower parts be scattered any way abroad, since all things by nature to the center tend (as if you could believe that any thing could stay and rest upon itself, that heavy bodies tend upwards, and fix their rest upon the surface of the earth opposite to us, just as we see the images of bodies show themselves in water.) By the same reason they contend that creatures walk underneath, as we above; nor can they fall into the regions of the air below, than can our bodies naturally fly upwards to Heaven; and when they see the sun, we view the stars of night, and so by turns they share with us the seasons of the heavens, and with us still divide night and days.

Latin: Illud in his rebus longe fuge credere, Memmi, in medium summae quod dicunt omnia niti atque ideo mundi naturam stare sine ullis ictibus externis neque quoquam posse resolvi summa atque ima, quod in medium sint omnia nixa, ipsum si quicquam posse in se sistere credis, et quae pondera sunt sub terris omnia sursum nitier in terraque retro requiescere posta, ut per aquas quae nunc rerum simulacra videmus; et simili ratione animalia suppa vagari contendunt neque posse e terris in loca caeli reccidere inferiora magis quam corpora nostra sponte sua possint in caeli templa volare; illi cum videant solem, nos sidera noctis cernere et alternis nobiscum tempora caeli dividere et noctes parilis agitare diebus.

Munro: But groundless \[error has devised such dreams\] for fools, because they have embraced \[false principles of reason.\] For there can be no center \[where the universe is\] infinite; no nor, even if there were a center, could anything take up a position there \[any more on that account\] than for some quite different reason \[be driven away.\] For all room and space, which we term void, must through center, through no-center alike give place to heavy bodies, in whatever directions their motions tend. Nor is there any spot of such a sort that when bodies have reached it, they can lose their force of gravity and stand upon void; and that again which is void must not serve to support anything, but must, as its nature craves, continually give place. Things cannot therefore in such a way be held in union, o’er-mastered by love of a center.

Dunster: But vain mistake hath formed this scheme for fools, who judge perversely of the seeds of things. For there can be no Middle, where there is a void or space that's infinite; or if there was, can bodies, for this reason, rather stop their course in this medium, than take up their abode in any part of space that's further off. For place, or empty space, which we call void, must equally give way to heavy movements through a medium, or through none, which way soever their motions tend; nor is there any place where bodies, when they come, throw off their weight, and stand fixed in a void, and take their rest. Nor can a void support the weight of bodies, but must by its own nature still give way. It follows then that things are not preserved or held together by this means, as if they fondly strove to reach a middle space.

Latin: Sed vanus stolidis haec * * * amplexi quod habent perv * * * nam medium nihil esse potest * * * infinita; neque omnino, si iam <medium sit>, possit ibi quicquam consistere * * * quam quavis alia longe ratione * * * omnis enim locus ac spatium, quod in<ane vocamus>, per medium, per non medium, concedere <debet> aeque ponderibus, motus qua cumque feruntur. nec quisquam locus est, quo corpora cum venerunt, ponderis amissa vi possint stare <in> inani; nec quod inane autem est ulli subsistere debet, quin, sua quod natura petit, concedere pergat. haud igitur possunt tali ratione teneri res in concilium medii cuppedine victae.

Munro: Again since they do not suppose that all bodies press to the center, but only those of earth, and those, of water, \[both such as descend to the earth in rain\] and those which are held in by the earth’s body, so to say, the fluid of the sea and great waters from the mountains; while on the other hand they teach that the subtle element of air and hot fires at the same time are carried away from the center and that for this reason the whole ether round bickers with signs and the sun’s flame is fed throughout the blue of heaven, because heat flying from the center all gathers together there, and that the topmost boughs of trees could not put forth leaves at all, unless from time to time \[nature supplied\] food from the earth to each \[throughout both stem and boughs, their reasons are not only false, but they contradict each other. Space I have already proved to be infinite; and space being infinite matter as I have said must also be infinite\] lest after the winged fashion of flames the walls of the world should suddenly break up and fly abroad along the mighty void, and all other things follow for like reasons and the innermost quarters of heaven tumble in from above and the earth in an instant withdraw from beneath our feet and amid the commingled ruins of things in it and of heaven, ruins unloosing the first bodies, should wholly pass away along the unfathomable void, so that in a moment of time not a wrack should be left behind, nothing save untenanted space and viewless first-beginnings.For on whatever side you shall first determine first bodies to be wanting, this side will be the gate of death for things, through this the whole crowd of matter will fling itself abroad.

Dunster: Besides, all bodies, they pretend, do not incline towards the center, but those of earth and water, the sea, the rivers rolling from the hills, and those that are composed of earthy parts. But the thin air, they say, and the hot fire are carried upwards from the middle; and hence it is the sky spangled every way with stars, and the sun's flame in his celestial course is fed, because the fire flying from the center there binds up all its heat; (so from the earth all mortal things are fed, nor can the trees adorn their lofty heads with leaves unless the earth to every kind affords its due support.) They say a sort of heavenly canopy above covers the whole, and holds it in; lest the world's walls, their parts being all dissolved, should instantly be scattered through the void, like swiftest flames, and all things be overwhelmed in this great ruin; lest the thundering vaults of heaven should tumble from above, and earth should fail our trembling feet, and the whole race of men, their bodies broken and dissolved, should wander through the boundless void, amidst these mingles ruins of the earth and heavens; and in a moment nothing would be left but desert empty space, and senseless seeds. For in whatever part you will suppose the seeds to separate, here will be the gate of death to bodies; for matter through the breach will rush abroad, and press with mighty force.

Latin: Praeterea quoniam non omnia corpora fingunt in medium niti, sed terrarum atque liquoris umorem ponti magnasque e montibus undas, et quasi terreno quae corpore contineantur, at contra tenuis exponunt aeris auras et calidos simul a medio differrier ignis, atque ideo totum circum tremere aethera signis et solis flammam per caeli caerula pasci, quod calor a medio fugiens se ibi conligat omnis, nec prorsum arboribus summos frondescere ramos posse, nisi a terris paulatim cuique cibatum ne volucri ritu flammarum moenia mundi diffugiant subito magnum per inane soluta et ne cetera consimili ratione sequantur neve ruant caeli tonitralia templa superne terraque se pedibus raptim subducat et omnis inter permixtas rerum caelique ruinas corpora solventes abeat per inane profundum, temporis ut puncto nihil extet reliquiarum desertum praeter spatium et primordia caeca. nam qua cumque prius de parti corpora desse constitues, haec rebus erit pars ianua leti, hac se turba foras dabit omnis materiai.

Munro: If you will well learn these things, then carried to the end with slight trouble \[you will be able by yourself to understand all the rest]. For one thing after another will grow clear and dark night will not rob you of the road and keep you from surveying the utmost ends of nature: in such wise things will light the torch for other things.

Dunster: If this you thoroughly know, and little pains will serve (for one thing by another you'll explain), no more shall darkness interrupt your way, but you shall view the utmost depths of nature, for things will show themselves by mutual light.

Latin: Haec sic pernosces parva perductus opella; namque alid ex alio clarescet nec tibi caeca nox iter eripiet, quin ultima naturai pervideas: ita res accendent lumina rebus.