Featured New Reflections on Five Years on the EpicureanFriends Forum

Reflections on Five Years on the EpicureanFriends Forum

Today is my five year anniversary on the forum, and here are some thoughts and reflections.

My interest in Epicurean philosophy began five years ago during the summer of 2021, just as Covid was beginning to recede. I had come across a philosophy book by a UO professor friend, which briefly mentioned “The Garden”. Curiosity led me to look online to find out more about Epicurean philosophy. I found the EpicureanFriends forum, and was excited to see all the helpful info for assisting in deep-dives into the philosophy. I began my learning by studying the various Epicurean texts with a desire to avoid engaging with any material that contained a mix of other eclectic spiritual or philosophical ideas. After a couple of months of online study, I decided to officially join the forum as a member.

My previous personal studies were in Buddhist philosophy, and likely the reading and study of the philosophical under-pinnings of Buddhism helped gear up my mind for the deeply concentrated reading which is necessary for studying Epicurean philosophy. Not only had I been reading about Buddhism, but for a number of years I had been attending a Zen Buddhist group which held weekly Zen meditation. Around the time that Covid began something in me had shifted with my personal engagement with Buddhist practice, and I felt a need to bring in more joy into my life. Epicurean philosophy and the ethics of Epicurus felt like a breath of fresh air, as it proclaimed that pleasure and happiness is the goal of life.

There are some very pronounced differences between Buddhism and Epicurean philosophy. First of all there is no evidence that Epicureans did the same type of meditation (or any type of meditation). And most importantly the Epicurean philosophy relies on the mind's ability to reason through “choices and avoidances”. Desires are not seen as something to be shunned as a cause of mental suffering, but rather examined and chosen according to what is natural, necessary for the body and soul’s well-being, and readily at hand.

At first glance there is something simple about the Epicurean philosophy, but five years on I am still learning new things. A large part of the study is first grasping the basic concepts. Then with these concepts in mind, one can move into mental contemplation to implement practical applications.

The forum has continued to grow in complexity over the last five years. In the last two years especially, there has been more focus on the forum and in the podcast to gain a deeper context of Epicurean philosophy through study of other textual sources such as Cicero, etc. This newer material might be of interest for the more advanced student. However, for myself, I feel that at times it can begin to cloud up or muddy up the big picture with all the additional layers of contrast between Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, etc.

Also, it seems clearer to me now that there are certain interpretive differences that keep occuring. These are due to some subtle contradictions between the Letter to Menoeceus and the Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings. This can bring in a feeling of a lack of clarity. The only way to deal with this is to “try it out” or test it. Try implementing the philosophy into your daily life and see how it goes with regard to pleasure, pain, health, mental well-being, and joy and contentment. I really do believe that it is a combination of adding things (activities, habits, choices) and also removing things.

Over the last few years I've started a few projects which I haven't fully completed, such as making “zines” and handouts for in-person meetings, and a “Seven Steps to Epicurus” online introductory program. And a few months ago I started creating commentary on the Letter to Menoeceus. I've written a few times about starting an in-person meeting, but right now it seems less likely that I will implement that. I am still working on adding more commentary to the Letter to Menoeceus document. And I do hope to eventually get back to adding more material to the “Seven Steps to Epicurus”.

I want to say how much I appreciate all the people who contribute to the forum and come to the Zoom meetings. I feel like I have learned so much from all of you. Also a great big thank you to Cassius the admin, without whom we would not have this forum. His guidance in navigating the philosophical complexities and in's and out's has been an invaluable support to me, in the continuation of building a greater understanding of Epicurean philosophy.

Comments 2

August 7, 2026 at 8:41 AM
Author

I've just set up this thread to further discuss philosophical ideas of complexity, contradictions, and testing out things:

Thread

Complexity, Contradictions, and "Testing Out" Epicurean Philosophy

In a recent blog post I wrote the following (and opening up this thread to discuss further):

"In the last two years especially, there has been more focus on the forum and in the podcast to gain a deeper context of Epicurean philosophy through study of other textual sources such as Cicero, etc. This newer material might be of interest for the more advanced student. However, for myself, I feel that at times it can begin to cloud up or muddy up the big picture with all the additional layers of…
Kalosyni
August 7, 2026 at 8:38 AM
August 7, 2026 at 6:43 AM

Thank you for being here!

In regard to this part I think you are part-way to answering your own question:

In the last two years especially, there has been more focus on the forum and in the podcast to gain a deeper context of Epicurean philosophy through study of other textual sources such as Cicero, etc. This newer material might be of interest for the more advanced student. However, for myself, I feel that at times it can begin to cloud up or muddy up the big picture with all the additional layers of contrast between Cicero, Plato, Aristotle, the Stoics, etc. Also, it seems clearer to me now that there are certain interpretive differences that keep occuring. These are due to some subtle contradictions between the Letter to Menoeceus and the Principal Doctrines/Vatican Sayings. This can bring in a feeling of a lack of clarity. The only way to deal with this is to “try it out” or test it.

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I do not believe that there is any cloudiness or subtle contradictions or lack of clarity inherent in the text of the Letter to Menoeceus or the Principal Doctrines/Vatican sayings. That some people beleive they are seeing such things is explainable by exactly what you mention. They do not have in their minds the context of the other textual sources and especially the debates about pleasure that were well known to the ancient Greek philosophers but not to us today. If you don't know the argument that pleasure cannot be the highest good because it is a "process" or "not complete" or is "becoming rather than being." then you're likely to misinterpret references to that issue, thinking that Epicurus has some totally different meaning in mind.

And unfortunately "trying it out" is impossible if you don't know what "it" is. If someone were to infer that "absence of pain" means meditation, for example, and they thought that by meditation they could "try out" Epicurean philosophy, they may find meditation pleasurable but they be not a step further in understanding Epicurus.

The average person living today who picks up the letter to Menoeceus or the Principal Doctrines cannot understand some of its more important aspects unless they take the time to learn why Epicurus was addressing "the limit of pleasure" or "absence of pain" in the first place.

This part of what you wrote is definitely true: Also, it seems clearer to me now that there are certain interpretive differences that keep occuring

There absolutely are many interpretative differences, and almost every commentator has a different take on the issues to which you are refer. From the very beginning you need to know that, as DeWitt says in the first paragraph of the first chapter of his book, Epicurus is at the same time one of the most loved and hated philosophers in history. Everyone needs to realize going in that they are going to have to make up their own minds about what Epicurus was really teaching, and that takes time and familiarity with the subject to achieve.

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