Posts by Rolf

Well said. Even if this particular book is fairly inconsequential, as Dave mentioned, it’s a shame because it represents the vast majority of discourse around Epicurus.

Quote from Cassius

the most important thing in life is to be calm and tranquil and avoid conflict and disagreement at any cost

Hmm, I definitely have a little category 1 in me. 😅 But I will fight valiantly for pleasure and to defend my tranquil life against BS (religious or otherwise). I see what you’re saying though. Epicureanism is far less compatible with Buddhism and Stoicism than many people seem to think.

Quote from Cassius

DeWitt's book

Just received it today.

Wow, what a mess. I’d struggle to write a more misleading and inaccurate description of Epicureanism if I tried. It’s a real shame that some people will read this and think they have an accurate impression of the philosophy.

Quote

And Epicurus is telling you, don’t use these false analogies and false ideals of virtue as being the remedy for pain. Just look at it realistically and realize that life has both pains and pleasures, and it is the pleasures that make life worthwhile. It is not your dreaming up some ideal system of virtue that makes life worthwhile. It is what nature gave you through pleasure that makes life worthwhile.

I’m particularly fond of the way you phrased this, Cassius. Too many people, myself included, fall into the trap of “dreaming up ideal systems of virtue” in order to make their lives feel worthwhile. And yet, the thing that really does make our lives worthwhile, pleasure, is right in front of our faces the whole time!

Great episode! I look forward to the continuation next week.

The comparison between the “heap of sand” analogy and “absence of pain” is interesting. Would you mind explaining it a bit more?

Welcome!

Glad to have you with us, Simteau!

Welcome to the forum! Happy to have you here.

Would somebody be able to post a concise explanation of the two sides of this debate? I see what you’re getting at but I’m not 100%.

Really fascinating discussion.

Does anyone have any good sources on learning about modern atomic theory and physics for an absolute beginner? I was just thinking about Epicurus' theories and it hit me just how amazing it is that he was able to get so much right without any kind of scientific equipment. He really was a genius.

Martin, Bryan: I don't know enough about psychics to agree or disagree with either of your positions, but I really appreciate both of you posting your perspectives on this.

Great point, Cassius!

Quote from Kalosyni

According to Diogenes Laertius Book 10, the Epicurean wise man sayings: "Only the Wise man could discourse rightly on music and poetry, but in practice he would not compose poems."

What does this mean exactly?

Welcome to the forum, David! You bring up some really interesting points, and I look forward to hearing more.

Quote from Bryan

Yes I was pointing to the similarities between Heraclitus "the Agitator" and the current theorists in charge as a further charge against them!

Ahh, okay! So you disagree with the dominant hypothesis?

Quote from Cassius

If following dominant interpretations were always a good idea, Epicurus would have accepted intelligent design for his physics and we would all be Abrahamists today!

Haha, I see where you’re coming from Cassius! Though I have to assume that this theory of a “universe in constant transformation” is based in scientific reasoning rather than supernatural leaps of faith and societal control. I’m of course no physicist however.

My question is more about how we decide which parts of Epicurus’ philosophy, and specifically his physics, can/should be dropped when new information comes to light. We discussed a little while ago on Zoom that some of Epicurus’ ideas were absolute and set-in-stone for him, while others were more of a “best guess”. As far as I’m aware, the theory of static atoms and void falls into the former category. If new scientific discoveries contradict Epicurean physics, surely they ought to be accepted, given a scientific worldview?

Now, of course the perspective that Bryan mentioned is only a hypothesis at this stage. My point, however, is less about this specific topic and more about scientific discoveries and consensus potentially being at odds with Epicurus’ physics. Don’s view is a valid one, and probably one I share, but I’m interested in hearing more perspectives on this.

Quote from Bryan

The current dominant interpretation in theoretical physics is far closer to Heraclitus’ flux

Fascinating! Does this mean that we as Epicureans would be wise to align ourselves with modern scientific understanding, adopt this view as the most probable explanation, and ditch the Epicurean view on static atoms and void?

I'm a big fan of this poem, but I feel it's acutely anti-Epicurean. "Raging against the dying of the light" brings to mind a bitter and agonising response to dying. Of course an Epicurean would hardly welcome death (beyond very specific scenarios), raging against it doesn't seem to be the most prudent response in any situation.

Perhaps a forum-wide poll on the topic of prolepsis could be interesting? It seems there are many different ways of interpreting the concept, which may be leading to some confusion when discussing it.

Quote from Don

In light of this excerpt above and others' reactions to my post, I feel I need to define my position a little more.

Very well said Don, and this echoes approximately where I’m at as well. Without a doubt, I think it’s important to combat radical skepticism and find solid ground to stand on that reality exists and behaves in a certain way. What I’m iffy on is the specific theory of prolepsis.

Quote from Cassius

But the faculty of prolepsis is the assembly process, not any particular pattern that is detected or assembled.

This is a helpful analogy, thank you. So to be clear, prolepses are unequivocally not innate ideas?