Posts by Matteng

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  • Epicurean philosophy vs. Stoicism in public popularity

    Hi,

    I come from the stoic camp and cross over not as an scout but as an deserter ;) ( based on a Senece quote )

    I think these are the main points for the popularity:

    - There is a divine rest in nature (like in the deep respect of Einstein (see Einsteins God, natural forces/laws, string theory, M theory .....)

    - Success of modern Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

    - Rationality science friendly

    - Social, Connection of all humans, nature, political responsibility ....

    But I think 1. all these aspects are even in Epicurean philosophy but more realistic/naturalistic/scientific.

    For example

    - a deep respect for nature but without divinity/God/fate/plan;

    - taking reason to question thoughts/actions/judgments and using psychologic techniques when useful for pleasure etc. not everything is an opinion (like in CBT );

    - Rational (+ importance of empirism/sense data) and social (friendly, justice is important, but not metaphysical, so more realistic )

    And 2. It is so good that Epicurus binds pleasure and virtue together, with pleasure as the end:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Example:

    Say there is a competion between a Stoic and Epicurean in staying out in the cold in winter.

    Why does the Stoic this ? -> For the sake of virtue ( courage, moderation)

    Why does the Epicurean do this ? -> Maybe for better health, sustain pleasure and choose a little pain for it.

    So let´s say after 2 hours a medical practitioner would come and says, that a longer stay would risk your health, you should stop that.

    => The Epicurean uses his prudence/wisdom to choose that it´s enough for the pleasure of health and stops it.

    => The Stoic: Health ? It´s a preferred indifferent, to train virtue like (courage/endurance/moderation ) is the highest value (Stoic wisdom). But when to stop ?

    Only when virtue can´t be trained any further, maybe by fainting, loosing consciousness .... ?

    Or dying because of freezing ? But ok life/death is even an indifferent...... Virtue is the highest goal.

    So the Stoic would be irrational ?

    Stoic: "But not so fast : Even the Epicurean has to use prudence/wisdom/virtue for his decision to stop because it is in complete control, pain / pleasure / health are not... And pain will not say you when it is enough freezing, so why concentrate on any other in life as virtue ?."

    Epicurean: "Yes, but my prudence values life/pleasure/health as goods, not virtue, because virtue as an instrument has no limit to calculate on, it is never enough it is abstract. I have trained endurance, the virtues and my health, you can loose everything if you freeze to death for virtue, on pleasure/pain and related goods you can calculate your optimum and limits".

    = > So to live pleasantly you need to live virtuously and vice versa.

    -------------------------------------------------

    What to you think ? Have I understand it right ?

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