how long is the whole document
Good question. ....counting... 7 pages: 401v to 404v
Posts by Don
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Translated:
http://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com/2014/12/marcus…ellias.html?m=1
"Dis" is not part of his wife's name, but seems to relate to the word discedere, "to depart". He built the tomb after she died (departed), for both of them, as well as for their liberti, freed slaves.
That's a great find, Joshua! Well done!
I had just begun to translate the Greek, and, yep, That's a good fluid translation there! I'm going to paste their translation here because it's too good for people to miss if they don't click the link:
Do not pass by my epitaph, dear passer-by.
Stop. Read and learn, and when you understand, go on:
There is no Charon waiting on a boat in Hades.
No judge named Aeacus, no dog called Cerberus.
All of us who've gone dead down here are now no more
Than rotting bone and ash. I've told it as it is
And have no more to say. Now, passer-by, go on
And know I keep the rule of dead men: tell no tales.
This tomb's just stone. So bring no myrrh or garlands.
Do not waste money on a fire.
If you want to gift me something, you should have
Done it when I was still alive.
If you mix wine with ash you just get mud.
Besides, the dead do not drink wine.
Just sprinkle some soil. Say: what I was before
I was, I have become once more.
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402r
Note that VS8 = PD15
ὁ τῆς φύσεως πλοῦτος καὶ ὥρισται καὶ εὐπόριστός ἐστιν, ὁ δὲ τῶν κενῶν δοξῶν εἰς ἄπειρον ἐκπίπτει.
BUT that last word ἐκπίπτει ends on the 2nd line. The next red initial Greek letter is Τῶν πλείστων ἀνθρώπων... which is VS11.
The popular VS 9 κακὸν ἀνάγκη, ἀλλʼ οὐδεμία ἀνάγκη ζῆν μετὰ ἀνάγκης. "Compulsion is a bad thing, but there is no compulsion to live under compulsion." starts at the end of the 2nd line of VS8 here. BUT between the end of ...ἐκπίπτει and the beginning of κακὸν ἀνάγκη... we have more text which *appears* to be:
και eido?ποριστος or something like that.... sorry, I'll have to work on the paleography.
VS9 ends and then VS10, which is attributed to Metrodorus starts towards the end of the 3rd line BUT NOTE that it does not have a RED capital letter! I'm wondering if that's significant... like the red letter editions of the New Testament where Jesus's words are printed in red?
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So this is combined Italian and Greek, but found in Italy? I would not have thought that inscriptions would be combined in different languages like that
RegionsSicily, Italy, and the West (IG XIV)Italy, incl. Magna Graecia
IGUR III 1245 IGUR III 1244 IGUR III 1246
[ ]
Italia — Roma — 3rd c. AD — IG XIV 1746 — CIL VI 14672 — GVI 1906Oh, Greek culture and language were ubiquitous in the Mediterranean. "Magna Graecia" is Greater Greece
Magna Graecia - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org -
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Could it be for Dis (the name of Pluto?)?
Dīs Pater - Wikipediaen.wikipedia.org -
402r
NOTE: Actually the 5th in the list of Vatican Sayings within the manuscript if we see Vatican Saying 3A and 3B as two separate sayings instead of a complete copying of PD4. VS4 is 2nd from the top on 402r starting from the capital pi Π.
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401v
2nd half of "Vatican Saying 3 is at the top of 402r
Note that red capital T (tau) at the beginning: Τὸ ἡδόμενον κατὰ.... This implies to me that the Vatican Sayings manuscript seems to list part 1 and part 2 as "VS3" as two separate sayings. So, Vatican Saying 3A and 3B are what we also know as PD4.
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This is a great find. I'll work on the Greek eventually unless someone else wants to! Up for grabs.
I ran the first Latin part through Google Translate:
Dis Cerellia Fortunata, my dearest wife, with whom I have lived 40 years without any complaint, Marcus Antonius Encolpus made for himself and Antonius Athenaeus his dearest freedman and their freedmen and liberties and their posterity except ∙ Marcus Antonius Athenianus, whom I forbid to have access to that monument nor the path around the entrance to have none in it, nor for the sake of burial to bring the remains of him and his descendants, because if anyone does anything against this, then the one who did it in the name of punishment to the pontiffs or to the "antescolaris" virgins will have to bring 50,000 sesterces in money, because he has denied me many wrongs to his parent and to Aulus Laelius Apelitis, the dearest client whom he chooses for the donation of the sarcophagus, he chooses for himself, because he has not left me in such a great defeat, whose benefits I leave.
("antescolaris" is a kind of teacher)
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Quote
"I wrote down the opinion of Metrodorus, because it is evident that he had most diligently warned the members to give attention to the management of the family affairs. See p. 544. although this statement certainly cannot be attributed to him."
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Thanks for the review. I may have to buy for the library.
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Bailey attributes VS10 to Metrodorus, corroborated with the fragments of Metrodorus...
The note seems to say: "Dueningius did not correctly infer from this passage that the book "Pros Menestraton" was written by Metrodorus, the sentence was drawn from a letter." And it must be the letter cited from Clement of Alexandria where the fragment includes addressing "Μενεστρατε Menestraton (vocative)" as the second word. It appears that Menestraton was a ruler of Miletus (3rd - 2nd century BC):
IONIA - MILETUS Bronze, (MB, Æ 20) v26_0080 Greek Coins
... Or not. I suppose there could be more than one Menestraton in the ancient world
Metrodorus, though an Epicurean, spoke thus, divinely inspired: “Remember, O Menestratus, that, being a mortal endowed with a circumscribed life, thou hast in thy soul ascended, till thou hast seen endless time, and the infinity of things; and what is to be, and what has been;”
This reminds me of Lucretius's description of Epicurus traveling the universe in his mind.
Here is the Vatican manuscript excerpt...
https://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1950.pt.2/0255
402r
NOTE that Metrodorus's attributed saying does NOT have a red capital letter starting it. It just is inserted within the text. See musings about a "red letter" edition of Epicurean sayings (like the red letter Bible and Jesus's words in red). -
Bailey attributes VS10 to Metrodorus
The note seems to say: "Dueningius did not correctly infer from this passage that the book "Pros Menestraton" was written by Metrodorus, the sentence was drawn from a letter." And it must be the letter cited from Clement of Alexandria where the fragment includes addressing "Μενεστρατε Menestraton (vocative)" as the second word. It appears that Menestraton was a ruler of Miletus (3rd - 2nd century BC):
IONIA - MILETUS Bronze, (MB, Æ 20) v26_0080 Greek Coins
Metrodorus, though an Epicurean, spoke thus, divinely inspired: “Remember, O Menestratus, that, being a mortal endowed with a circumscribed life, thou hast in thy soul ascended, till thou hast seen endless time, and the infinity of things; and what is to be, and what has been;”
This reminds me of Lucretius's description of Epicurus traveling the universe in his mind.
NOTE: I also copied this information to the thread on VS10 in that section of the forum.
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