Posts by kochiekoch

If the question is whether a wise man will cry out in pain under extreme conditions like being on the rack. Does he have a choice?

You did specify a line drawing. So here it is.

Coming right up courtesy of Copilot. In living color!

I asked an AI bot called Co-Pilot to draw me a symbol of Epicurean philosophy.

Seeing how these things have come out in the past, I thought it would be AWFUL!

But you know, it's not half bad.

Quote from Rolf

Related question: How does a modern-day Epicurean reconcile a) the predominant theory that the universe has a beginning with b) the Epicurean idea that the universe has no beginning and end?

All we know is its current era did. Could it be infinitely expanding and contracting without beginning without end? It's nothing that can be ruled out. Right now, there's not enough evidence, although the cosmological constant doesn't seem so constant as it seems to have different values in different parts of space over time. If it slows down the universe will eventually stop expanding and contract.

The universe's accelerated expansion might be slowing down

The principle of multiple explanations comes into play. Very Epicurean.

>>Why is that so bad? I could generalise it, and it would remain true: "most people would have no clue what Epicurean philosophy is" — and, as far as the general public is concerned, the same would also hold true for Epicurus' face. <<

I couldn't get the darn quote feature to work. This is my third attempt.

Most people aren't interested in philosophy either, but if they are, the ancient Greek philosophies are all represented by the images of their namesakes.

>>You see, it's probably true that in some parts of the world most of the local people there would have no clue what the christianist fish symbol means — but some people would know, some people would recognize it, and it could be the beginning of a bond over shared values.<<

Yeah, but they'd mostly know an image of Jesus.

Now that I think about it, human beings are wired to respond to faces. Maybe the easiest way to identify an ideology.

>>And also, those who use the symbol would know what it means to themselves, it would be a reminder, a little non-supernatural ritual or charm, which is also something valuable.<<

LOL!!! You'd have to promote your symbol! Epicurus! He gets us!

He Gets Us - Wikipedia

Quote from Julia

Roses are, indeed, more easily obtained, but roses are so very common and as a symbol are so heavily pre-charged already, that I wonder if they would serve a symbol's purpose of providing recognition with a reasonable amount of certainty…

LOL!!! "A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet"!

Quote from Julia

I remain skeptical regarding whether Venus Physica is the way to go. I think there is a difference between "metaphorical" and "symbolic", and to me, Venus is more metaphorical than symbolic, which remains true, whether or not she was Memmius' and Lucretius' favourite. Venus as a metaphor can be exchanged for something else, without changing Epicurean philosophy as such. On the other hand, the atoms, the tetrapharmakos, the 20ieth, and so forth, are fixed — they will exist practically forever, and even if we live on Mars someday, moon on earth will still look the same on that day. I think that's beautiful and poetic

That's a very good point. You would want something unmistakably Epicurean as your symbol.

Quote from Julia

So far, my personal favourites are still the waning gibbous (20er moon) with four atom dots arranged in a diamond, and the sideways rhombus with an atom in the middle

I don't think most people would have a clue that the waning moon is Epicurean. Also true of the four atom dots arraigned in a diamond. Frankly the sideways rhombus looks like an eyeball. Which is too bad because they're apparently available in jewelry now.

So, thinking twice about all this has made me favor a conservative position. The image of Epicurus, used for generations in the ancient world, would be best. It is UNMISTAKABLY Epicurean and would be so to even the uninitiated. (Unless somebody identifies it as Epictetus. I've seen that)

Quote from Julia

A flower, just like anything else, should, in my humble opinion, have a good amount of symbolism to go with it; symbolism which is Epicurean in a more narrower sense of the word than Venus or Iphigenia would be on their own.

Yeah, there is a lot of deep symbolism there if you break it down isn't there. Although I don't think it's necessary to go to that level of depth for a simple symbol of Epicureanism. Myrtle flowers are great, but I prefer roses. Also symbolic of Venus and a lot more common and easily obtained.

I don't think poor Iphigenia, brutally murdered by her father, would be a good symbol of Epicureanism in general as her story is sad and ugly and superstitious. She's a cautionary tale.

Venus is a great metaphor for the philosophy, as she symbolizes the beauty and harmony of nature and also of pleasure and desire. The poet Lucretius, secular as he was, featured her prominently in his poem for that and other reasons.

Quote from Martin

Here is an article why the reliance on models/theories in science and the realism-anti-realism dispute in the philosophy of science should not turn us into Sceptics:

"When is a Fact a Fact?": A Conversation with Peter Vickers

I found the link at Philosophy Matters on: Facebook

I understand 5 sigma certainty is the gold standard:

Why do physicists mention “five sigma” in their results? | CERN

Quote from Joshua

I'd like to throw in one more contender; the myrtle blossom, sacred to Aphrodite/Venus.

https://toptropicals.com/pics/garden/m1…234_flower_.jpg

Note that this is the True or Common Myrtle, myrtus communis. Frescoes featuring this plant have been discovered at Santorini and Pompeii.

I like it! Also a quick search shows a rose is also a symbol of Venus and Aphrodite, so you got your pick.

Another philosophical position that uses a flower as a symbol is freethought. They use a pansy as a symbol.

Humanist Heritage: Freethought pansy

The pansy has a historic association with humanism and freethought, its name deriving from the French ‘pensée’ meaning ‘to think’. […]

heritage.humanists.uk

Flowers are delicate and non-intimidating, not to mention beautiful and transient. Kind of like the good life.

Here's another one. Very well done.

Although Pompeii wasn't buried in lava, it was buried in pyroclastic flow and ash.

Last Day of Pompeii - An AI History Short

It was mentioned in the regular Wednesday chat that the new AI assisted scanning techniques found this information.

Here's the article:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/06/science/herculaneum-scroll-title-author-decoded-intl-scli

Something that impressed me when I looked up Cicero on the Wikipedia page, to get some background on the man so frequently mentioned here on the forum, was how calmly he took his own impending death. He must have really believed he was going to a better place. The last few episodes here explain his thinking.

Cicero - Wikipedia

>>As reported by Seneca the Elder, according to the historian Aufidius Bassus, Cicero's last words are said to have been:

Quote

Ego vero consisto. Accede, veterane, et, si hoc saltim potes recte facere, incide cervicem.
I go no further: approach, veteran soldier, and, if you can at least do so much properly, sever this neck.^[121]

He bowed to his captors, leaning his head out of the litter in a gladiatorial gesture to ease the task. By baring his neck and throat to the soldiers, he was indicating that he would not resist. According to Plutarch, Herennius first slew him, then cut off his head.<<

It's kind of interesting, in the top note article, that the pleasure centers are stimulated by the highly processed foods, dense in fats, sugars, sodium and carbs that our ancestors found scarce. So, we'd eat more of them. (And we do)!

It demonstrates that pleasure is a regulatory mechanism for the health of the person, even if it's gone a little awry in modern times.

Best of luck to the Clipper. There could be life on Europa too. All over the universe as Epicurus suggested.

This is all tentative, but heck, it's intriguing!

Scientists find promising hints of life on distant planet K2-18b

Hi Rolf and welcome!

'Bittersweet' memories of past romances are rough. I know.

Epicurus, I believe would have counseled to have gratitude for the pleasure of the experience and the skills acquired for the next romance. This way the pleasure outweighs the pain.

Sounds trite and true but valid in my opinion: 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all'.

5 Famous Literary Quotes Explained: “‘Tis Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all” — History Through Fiction

You probably know, and perhaps can relate to the line, “‘Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.” Find out where the line originates…

www.historythroughfiction.com

A quick check via AI says that the oscillating universe could fit either worldview. The Stoic idea is that the universe runs in cycles, all decided by benevolent providence, 😁, and the Epicurean worldview is that the universe is infinite and eternal with no controlling will. Cycles notwithstanding.

All this stuff is hypothetical right now anyway. The science can change fast.

The news is dark energy is weakening. Eventually, it may be that the universe will collapse on itself. Something it may have done an infinite number of times in the past. Eternal expansion and contraction.

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/20/nx-s1-5333843/dark-energy-weakening-universe-collapse-desi

Gorgeous thank you!