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I am hijacking Joshua's thread and changing the title to make it more generic and hopefully extend it. I have seen the first draft of Joshua's map video. It is excellent and it is a reminder of how effective and far-reaching that good video can be.
We need to encourage everyone who is even slightly interested in creative video production to try their hand at this. We can use this and other threads to share information about tools and methods and ask each other questions.
I entitled the thread with a reference to free and open source software, because I think it is highly desirable that we use tools that are available to others and with which we can better share our expertise. However I know that some of the most powerful options are not publicly offered, so don't let that stop you from posting about what you are using, especially if the cost is relatively low. But thinking ahead to what will be most effective in getting other people going, options which are totally open and low or no cost are probably going to find the widest adoption.
We have lots of creative people here and it would be great if we could encourage each other to produce work like this.
Yes I see where you are going Godfrey and I definitely want to read further into this.
At the moment I am thinking that the issue may be that in glass half full / half empty issue. In the face of an ambiguous construction (the end of pain) we project onto that ambiguity what we think we "should" project there given our cultural overlay.
Today we are taught either a sort of oppressive religious absolutism or a sort of nihilistic nothingness or other assorted oppressiveness as a default position that would occur when our personal needs and desires are reduced to zero, and so when I hear "absence of pain" I hear nothingness and immobility and nothing attractive whatsoever.
However if your starting presumption is that being alive in the absence of pain entails a fully effective organism that is able to accomplish everything it has the power to accomplish (and not just does nothing simply because it doesn't want to do anything) then maybe the picture you get of "absence of pain" immediately transforms into such a powerful image - and maybe that is Epicurus' frame of reference.
But to me it would all boil down to that initial set of presumptions and references that - like all the atoms in the universe - we too are in motion and doing things smoothly in a way that we find makes for pleasure and happiness, and that initial set of presumptions and references cannot be left to ambiguity.
I strongly doubt that Epicurus left it ambiguous in his own time - I feel sure his other writings explained this much more clearly than the letter to Menoeceus - and I feel certain that given our cultural mess today that it is essential that this not be left ambiguous.
So yes we can say absence of pain constitutes an interesting generalized way to express the best state of existence, but the "then what is the person doing after that?" cannot be left to abstract notions that sound like "nothing," The explanation demands that the context and premises of the generalization be explained with clarity.
Godfrey I missed your long excerpt in post 4 earlier. Just to repeat some of it:
"To summarize, the good according to Aristippus consists in moving, in changing oneself, running from pleasure to pleasure, enhancing past enjoyment with a new enjoyment. In contrast, to possess the good, Epicurus says, is to rest immobile in oneself. Instead of concerning oneself with gaining [new enjoyments] we need to make every effort not to lose anything. It is to restrain and restrict all the fugacious and superficial enjoyments to just one, an indestructible and profound one, which is an enjoyment of life itself. The good, then, is serenity."
Yeah I guess if this is reflective of his views then I doubt I can climb aboard. I will give him credit for looking for something positive in stillness and immobility, and in fact it seems clear that that is the best face that one can put on an ascetic interpretation.
But I don't buy it at all. Thank Zeus Diogenes Laertius preserved clearly that Epicurus embraced BOTH the pleasures of rest and of motion. That Epicurus did so is to me obvious from many other texts, but there is no doubt that one can read portions of the letter to Menoeceus in isolation and conclude that preservation and immobility are viable interpretations of some kind of ultimate goal. Even I can stretch those words to seem acceptable, but in the end we can't dance around it.
I think it's highly valuable to have these discussions so we can confront them. It's also essential that we make clear that someone whose number one priority in life is immobility and fear of pain has profoundly misinterpreted Epicurus.
There's no way to avoid this controversy. It exists and people will always be confronted by it. I think Epicurus would expect us to stand tall and point out the errors as clearly as possible.
Significant part available here.
Someone previously remarked that the put Hermarchus (or is that Metrodorus?) on the cover?
Interesting! I googled and look at one of the first pages that came up. Quite a graphic containing a phrase we have used ourselves in our discussions here:
Godfrey is this an old book for which you have a public link, or something more modern for which we will have to go digging?
For the moment just want to say this is one of the most eloquent and encouraging posts from a new participant I think I've ever seen. Welcome!
Welcome Creative Air !
Note: In order to minimize spam registrations, all new registrants must respond in this thread to this welcome message within 72 hours of its
posting, or their account is subject to deletion. All that is required is a "Hello!" but of course we hope you will introduce yourself -- tell us a little about yourself and what prompted your interest in Epicureanism -- and/or post a question.
This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.
Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.
All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.
One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.
In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.
It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.
And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.
(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).
Welcome to the forum!
I presume rendering the final product to MP4 will be the best format Joshua (?). Then we find a way to send a large file.
As you read the forum further you will see Don and I go back and forth on our views of that book. Both of us agree that DeWitt probably goes too far in the analogies that he draws, but depending on one's background one will find the book either super-interesting or unnecessarily speculative. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts as you read through it so if you have reactions worth posting, please do!
Here's a thread dedicated to that book, and this would probably be the best place for new discussions of it:
I'm a big fan of Biblical studies
If so, you might find Norman DeWitt's "St Paul and Epicurus" particularly interesting (if you've not already heard of it) -
Very nice! I have long heard that Blender is great software but I have never tried to use it so looking forward to this for a variety of reasons.
Welcome to Episode 172 of Lucretius Today. This is a podcast dedicated to the poet Lucretius, who wrote "On The Nature of Things," the only complete presentation of Epicurean philosophy left to us from the ancient world. Each week we walk you through the Epicurean texts, and we discuss how Epicurean philosophy can apply to you today. If you find the Epicurean worldview attractive, we invite you to join us in the study of Epicurus at EpicureanFriends.com, where you will find a discussion thread for each of our podcast episodes and many other topics.
We are now in the process of a series of podcasts intended to provide a general overview of Epicurean philosophy based on the organizational structure employed by Norman DeWitt in his book "Epicurus and His Philosophy."
This week we begin our discussion of Chapter 12, entitled "The New Hedonism."
Episode 171 of the podcast is now available!
Welcome Sonderling !
Note: In order to minimize spam registrations, all new registrants must respond in this thread to this welcome message within 72 hours of its posting, or their account is subject to deletion. All that is required is a "Hello!" but of course we hope you will introduce yourself -- tell us a little about yourself and what prompted your interest in Epicureanism -- and/or post a question.
This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.
Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.
All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.
One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.
In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.
It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.
And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.
(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).
Welcome to the forum!
Yep that meets the requirement, but we've had some spammer activity lately so it would still be nice to hear something specific about Epicurus so that we know you're not just a "friendly" spammer 
Glad to have you.
As soon as Joshua gets appointed to set the terms and definitions of Humanism, I am all in!
My thoughts have not changed much over the years but they do still tend to flow with the context. Most people who casually align with Epicurus and are casually reading "Secular Humanist" material is going to generally find them attractive, and I don't think it helps anything to jump up and down over it.
The issue is more when the discussion is getting less "casual" and more "serious" in terms of digging really deep into what is going on. It's at that point, when you're really at stage of trying to figure things out, that you begin to see the differences and how important they can be.
But for me it's like a rollercoaster and much of the time I would just let the issue roll off my back like water on a duck. It's just when you really have some reason to take a firm stand on "organizations" or "official alignment" or whatever that most of the details come into play.
Welcome JWDK4 !
Note: In order to minimize spam registrations, all new registrants must respond in this thread to this welcome message within 72 hours of its posting, or their account is subject to deletion. All that is required is a "Hello!" but of course we hope you will introduce yourself -- tell us a little about yourself and what prompted your interest in Epicureanism -- and/or post a question.
This forum is the place for students of Epicurus to coordinate their studies and work together to promote the philosophy of Epicurus. Please remember that all posting here is subject to our Community Standards / Rules of the Forum our Not Neo-Epicurean, But Epicurean and our Posting Policy statements and associated posts.
Please understand that the leaders of this forum are well aware that many fans of Epicurus may have sincerely-held views of what Epicurus taught that are incompatible with the purposes and standards of this forum. This forum is dedicated exclusively to the study and support of people who are committed to classical Epicurean views. As a result, this forum is not for people who seek to mix and match some Epicurean views with positions that are inherently inconsistent with the core teachings of Epicurus.
All of us who are here have arrived at our respect for Epicurus after long journeys through other philosophies, and we do not demand of others what we were not able to do ourselves. Epicurean philosophy is very different from other viewpoints, and it takes time to understand how deep those differences really are. That's why we have membership levels here at the forum which allow for new participants to discuss and develop their own learning, but it's also why we have standards that will lead in some cases to arguments being limited, and even participants being removed, when the purposes of the community require it. Epicurean philosophy is not inherently democratic, or committed to unlimited free speech, or devoted to any other form of organization other than the pursuit by our community of happy living through the principles of Epicurean philosophy.
One way you can be most assured of your time here being productive is to tell us a little about yourself and personal your background in reading Epicurean texts. It would also be helpful if you could tell us how you found this forum, and any particular areas of interest that you have which would help us make sure that your questions and thoughts are addressed.
In that regard we have found over the years that there are a number of key texts and references which most all serious students of Epicurus will want to read and evaluate for themselves. Those include the following.
It is by no means essential or required that you have read these texts before participating in the forum, but your understanding of Epicurus will be much enhanced the more of these you have read. Feel free to join in on one or more of our conversation threads under various topics found throughout the forum, where you can to ask questions or to add in any of your insights as you study the Epicurean philosophy.
And time has also indicated to us that if you can find the time to read one book which will best explain classical Epicurean philosophy, as opposed to most modern "eclectic" interpretations of Epicurus, that book is Norman DeWitt's Epicurus And His Philosophy.
(If you have any questions regarding the usage of the forum or finding info, please post any questions in this thread).
Welcome to the forum!
