1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Ethics - How To Live
  4. Epicurean Life Strategies for Modern Times
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Personal Finance from an Epicurean Viewpoint

  • Godfrey
  • January 30, 2019 at 4:15 PM
  • Go to last post

We are now requiring that new registrants confirm their request for an account by email.  Once you complete the "Sign Up" process to set up your user name and password, please send an email to the New Accounts Administator to obtain new account approval.

Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Godfrey
    Epicurist
    Points
    12,288
    Posts
    1,720
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    85.0 %
    Bookmarks
    1
    • January 30, 2019 at 4:15 PM
    • #1

    This article showed up in my news feed this morning. It's written by a personal finance blogger who from time to time explores a particular school of philosophy and applies it to practical living and finances. Perhaps he over-emphasizes frugality, but he has a nice take on hedonic calculus (without using the term) and an interesting take on applying the overall philosophy.

    https://www.thesimpledollar.com/how-epicurean-…financial-life/

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,211
    Posts
    14,553
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 30, 2019 at 5:34 PM
    • #2

    (1) Thanks Godfrey! This is a subject that I'd like to correlate with the surviving material from Philodemus in his "Property Management" material.


    (2) "Epicureanism nudges people toward the idea that the greatest happiness is found in pleasures that have a minimal cost associated with them." This is an excellent pithy sentence that I think distills the problem, and I think is not correct to all. First of all, is "happiness" something that has levels? Is one "happiness" greater than another "happiness," or is all "happiness" equal. Comparisons are usually reserved for "pleasures" in that some are more or less intense, or more or less long-lasting. I don't think Epicurus ever talks in terms of "the greatest happiness.

    (3) But to go further, when Epicurus talks of greater or lesser pleasures, he rarely if ever gives a description of the feeling itself- he says that we know pleasure and pain by feeling, not by explaining or justifying. And in that sense (which I think DeWitt discusses under the topic of "fullness of pleasure" -- pleasure is pretty much pleasure, differing mainly in intensity or length. And Epicurus rarely if ever gives a list of "pleasures" and says that A is better than B is better than C. Epicurus measures the hedonic calculus in pleasure vs pain, and all types of mental and physical pains are included within them. So the entire picture comes down to the issue of not that some pleasures are better than others, but simply that some pleasures bring with them more or less cost in terms of pain.

    (4) If we were rewriting that sentence more accurately according to Epicurus, it would be something like "Epicurus nudges people toward the idea that the best way to fill our experience with pleasure is to choose pleasurable activities in light of the amount of pain that they bring with them." And in some cases it makes sense to sit on your sofa and drink water and eat bread, and in some cases it makes sense to build a house, make a generator, build a computer, and sign onto the internet to discuss philosophy with friends. There's nothing "simplest" or "minimal cost" to the latter choice, but if your anxieties come from fear of death or fear of gods or from a myriad of other problems, then your best result will come from the exertion involved in joining modern civilization, rather than live in a cave on bread and water.

    And so there I've made my standard reservation. Having said that I certainly agree with, and try to practice many, of the observations he has made. And surely there are people who need those observations. But still.... why do I have this sense that so much is lost when we reduce Epicurus to "simplicity" ;)

    Is this the Epicurean theme song? Appealing, but I don't think so --


  • Godfrey
    Epicurist
    Points
    12,288
    Posts
    1,720
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    85.0 %
    Bookmarks
    1
    • January 31, 2019 at 1:33 AM
    • #3

    Wow, that video is hysterical and a little scary! ^^=O

    Cassius, I appreciate and agree with your comments. The article is definitely not a "deep dive" into EP, but it's a nice starting point for some practical applications of the philosophy. It would be really interesting to see a discussion of Property Management regarding this subject.

    Which reminds me of a two-part piece Hiram wrote which I need to read. Here's the link to part 1:

    http://societyofepicurus.com/on-philodemus-…agement-part-i/

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,211
    Posts
    14,553
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 31, 2019 at 9:06 AM
    • #4

    That video does have a little of an "Omen" or "Tubular Bells" quality doesn't it? :)

    Yes, as to Hiram's article, I need to spend more time with those fragments. Hiram tends to give his presentations without as many footnotes as I like to use, especially when texts are fragmentary. When I check to see how fragmentary many of these are, I find it hazardous to put too much stock in what is left. It seems to me that in many cases we don't know if what is left is being characterized as the Epicurean position, or is in fact them citing the opposing view before refuting it. My best example of that is the Delacey work on "On Methods of Inference" which starts out with a long passage from a non-Epicurean source, and seems to flip back and forth. If you don't already have a view on what to expect the Epicurean position to be, then it is very hard to tell who is saying what. But if you start out with your own presumptions, then there's no check on your accuracy. At any rate it's still worth doing, but hazardous I think.

  • Matt
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    2,977
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 1, 2019 at 5:44 AM
    • #5

    Children of the Corn Part IV.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,211
    Posts
    14,553
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • February 1, 2019 at 7:45 AM
    • #6

    I'm a little surprised to hear you say that, LD. When I posted it I was really thinking only of the "simplicity" message, but it's true that there probably is an "Omen" feel to it. The whole Amish/Mennonite phenomena is kind of weird to me, but in a way I can't quite put my finger on.

  • Matt
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    2,977
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 1, 2019 at 4:03 PM
    • #7

    Haha! Why were you surprised?

    The message of simplicity is valid. But the delivery is overtly Bizzarre.

  • Matt
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    2,977
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 1, 2019 at 5:18 PM
    • #8

    Yeah the Amish, like some other communal groups like the Orthodox Jewish folks, dress in an archaic European fashion.

    To the modern eye it just appears out of the ordinary and out of step with progress. Like we stepped back into the 19th century. It’s all to preserve a cultural identity.

    Also, we tend to associate that style with more “cultish” behavior like the various species of LDS Mormonites.

    I too am guilty of having this POV, but make no concession that it appears normal nor will I change my opinion that this style will forever remind me of Isaac’s cult from Children of the Corn. ?

  • Matt
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    2,977
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 1, 2019 at 5:19 PM
    • #9

    https://goo.gl/images/CvuivB

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,211
    Posts
    14,553
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • February 2, 2019 at 10:08 AM
    • #10

    I have to confess I have never seen "Children of the Corn." Worth watching??

  • Matt
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    2,977
    Posts
    426
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 2, 2019 at 10:16 AM
    • #11

    So yes and no. I like it, but I recognize it has some flaws and it has not aged well. Plus, Stephen King’s books rarely translate well to the screen. This one is more of a cult classic. There are some pretty lame special FX at the very end. But the first part of the movie is somewhat entertaining.

    Since they are remaking “Pet Semetary” maybe they will do a remake of this one.

  • Hiram
    02 - Level Two
    Points
    4,082
    Posts
    579
    Quizzes
    1
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 4, 2019 at 3:35 PM
    • #12
    Quote from Cassius

    Yes, as to Hiram's article, I need to spend more time with those fragments. Hiram tends to give his presentations without as many footnotes as I like to use, especially when texts are fragmentary. When I check to see how fragmentary many of these are, I find it hazardous to put too much stock in what is left. It seems to me that in many cases we don't know if what is left is being characterized as the Epicurean position, or is in fact them citing the opposing view before refuting it. ...

    Just as important as the content of those scrolls--or perhaps MORE--is what would those conversations look like TODAY, and that should be the point of studying these scrolls.

    For instance, there is no slavery today, so living off the labor of others is not doable today. Also, many of the professions discussed in the scroll no longer exist or have relevance: equestrian? miner? Very few people make a living like they did in antiquity. The only two ones that translate today are making money from teaching philosophy (if you're extremely lucky) and living off rental property income.

    So the more important question today is what would be today's "natural measure of wealth" in OUR society, what are the noble professions or ways to earn a living today, etc. We don't have to study philosophy like an exercise in the study of a history of itself. We can do philosophy by making it relevant at every point … and (considering the recent economic crisis of 2008 and the upcoming automation of labor) the teachings on autarchy are probably one of the most gratifying and important aspects of EP and one of the most neglected!

    I'm personally gonna write a bit more on Epicurean economics this year, but I really think we should give up the fossilized approach to EP and get used to thinking for ourselves critically about the details of our economic doctrines, which are absolutely relevant and useful, and even necessary, today. They're not museum pieces.

    "We should at once philosophize, laugh, and take care of our economics" - Epicurus

    "Please always remember my doctrines!" - Epicurus' last words

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,211
    Posts
    14,553
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • February 4, 2019 at 4:27 PM
    • #13

    "For instance, there is no slavery today, so living off the labor of others is not doable today." < Not doable as directly as slavery, but the way capitalism works (especially as to "interest") sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

  • Hiram
    02 - Level Two
    Points
    4,082
    Posts
    579
    Quizzes
    1
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • February 5, 2019 at 10:02 AM
    • #14
    Quote from Cassius

    "For instance, there is no slavery today, so living off the labor of others is not doable today." < Not doable as directly as slavery, but the way capitalism works (especially as to "interest") sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

    True. And so we can say that avoidance of (excessive, unnecessary) debt is then an important component of autarchy today.

    "Please always remember my doctrines!" - Epicurus' last words

  • Cassius July 27, 2020 at 10:45 AM

    Moved the thread from forum Independent Living And Self-Reliance to forum Practical Advice On Simple Living.
  • Cassius January 23, 2021 at 8:31 AM

    Moved the thread from forum Practical Advice On Living Independently / Self-Reliantly / Simply / In The Country to forum Daily Life As An Epicurean.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Immutability of Epicurean school in ancient times 15

      • Thanks 1
      • TauPhi
      • July 28, 2025 at 8:44 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • TauPhi
      • September 10, 2025 at 7:08 AM
    2. Replies
      15
      Views
      6.7k
      15
    3. Cassius

      September 10, 2025 at 7:08 AM
    1. Boris Nikolsky - Article On His Interest in Classical Philosophy (Original In Russian) 1

      • Thanks 1
      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:21 PM
      • Articles Prepared By Professional Academics
      • Cassius
      • September 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      3.3k
      1
    3. Cassius

      September 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
    1. Boris Nikolsky's 2023 Summary Of His Thesis About Epicurus On Pleasure (From "Knife" Magazine)

      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:32 PM
      • Articles Prepared By Professional Academics
      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:32 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      2.2k
    1. Edward Abbey - My Favorite Quotes 4

      • Love 4
      • Joshua
      • July 11, 2019 at 7:57 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Joshua
      • August 31, 2025 at 1:02 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      6.8k
      4
    3. SillyApe

      August 31, 2025 at 1:02 PM
    1. A Question About Hobbes From Facebook

      • Cassius
      • August 24, 2025 at 9:11 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • August 24, 2025 at 9:11 AM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      2.8k

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

What's the best strategy for finding things on EpicureanFriends.com? Here's a suggested search strategy:

  • First, familiarize yourself with the list of forums. The best way to find threads related to a particular topic is to look in the relevant forum. Over the years most people have tried to start threads according to forum topic, and we regularly move threads from our "general discussion" area over to forums with more descriptive titles.
  • Use the "Search" facility at the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere." Also check the "Search Assistance" page.
  • Use the "Tag" facility, starting with the "Key Tags By Topic" in the right hand navigation pane, or using the "Search By Tag" page, or the "Tag Overview" page which contains a list of all tags alphabetically. We curate the available tags to keep them to a manageable number that is descriptive of frequently-searched topics.

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Episode 299 - TD27 - Was Epicurus Right That There Are Only Two Feelings - Pleasure And Pain? Not Yet Released

    Cassius September 16, 2025 at 11:31 AM
  • Episode 298 - TD26 - Facts And Feelings In Epicurean Philosophy - Part 1"

    Cassius September 16, 2025 at 9:01 AM
  • The relationship between pleasure and pain and emotions and feelings

    Kalosyni September 16, 2025 at 8:18 AM
  • Specific Methods of Resistance Against Our Coming AI Overlords

    Pacatus September 15, 2025 at 3:52 PM
  • Comparing The Pleasure of A Great Physicist Making A Discovery To The Pleasure of A Lion Eating A Lamb

    Cassius September 14, 2025 at 6:09 AM
  • Fragment 32 -- The "Shouting To All Greeks And Non-Greeks That Virtue Is Not The Goal" Passage

    Don September 13, 2025 at 10:32 AM
  • Latest Podcast Posted - "Facts And Feelings In Epicurean Philosophy - Part 1"

    Cassius September 12, 2025 at 4:55 PM
  • The Role of Virtue in Epicurean Philosophy According the Wall of Oinoanda

    Kalosyni September 12, 2025 at 9:26 AM
  • Bodily Sensations, Sentience and AI

    Patrikios September 11, 2025 at 5:05 PM
  • Additional Timeline Details Needed

    Eikadistes September 11, 2025 at 12:15 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Friendship
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Friendship
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design