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Epicurus vs Aristotle: the Role of Reason vs Sensation Seeking?

  • Kalosyni
  • December 8, 2025 at 1:47 PM
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SUNDAY WEEKLY ZOOM - 12:30 PM EDT - Ancient Text Study: De Rerum Natura by Lucretius -- Meeting is open to Level 03 members and above -- Read the agenda for December 14, 2025 by clicking here.

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    Cassius
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    • December 11, 2025 at 5:37 PM
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    • #21
    Quote from Joshua

    This is fundamentally the difference between a priori and a posteriori claims of knowledge, with Epicurus largely rejecting the former but endorsing his own philosophical interpretations of the latter.

    On the earlier point that Kalosyni raised and Joshua addressed, we probably should discuss at some point whether saying that Epicurus was opposed to "formal logic" would also be accurate:

    Quote

    Formal logic, the abstract study of propositions, statements, or assertively used sentences and of deductive arguments. The discipline abstracts from the content of these elements the structures or logical forms that they embody. The logician customarily uses a symbolic notation to express such structures clearly and unambiguously and to enable manipulations and tests of validity to be more easily applied. Although the following discussion freely employs the technical notation of modern symbolic logic, its symbols are introduced gradually and with accompanying explanations so that the serious and attentive general reader should be able to follow the development of ideas.

    Formal logic is an a priori, and not an empirical, study. In this respect it contrasts with the natural sciences and with all other disciplines that depend on observation for their data. Its nearest analogy is to pure mathematics; indeed, many logicians and pure mathematicians would regard their respective subjects as indistinguishable, or as merely two stages of the same unified discipline. Formal logic, therefore, is not to be confused with the empirical study of the processes of reasoning, which belongs to psychology. It must also be distinguished from the art of correct reasoning, which is the practical skill of applying logical principles to particular cases; and, even more sharply, it must be distinguished from the art of persuasion, in which invalid arguments are sometimes more effective than valid ones.

    Formal logic | Definition, Examples, Symbols, & Facts | Britannica
    Formal logic, the abstract study of propositions, statements, or assertively used sentences and of deductive arguments. The discipline abstracts from the…
    www.britannica.com
  • Don
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    • December 11, 2025 at 5:41 PM
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    • #22

    Cassius : Your experience with Philodemus' On Methods of Inference seems like it would be directly relevant here:

    Philodemus: On methods of inference: a study in ancient empiricism : Philodemus : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    http://uf.catalog.fcla.edu/uf.jsp?st=UF001032148&ix=nu&I=0&V=D
    archive.org

    (No, I have not read it yet)

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    • December 11, 2025 at 5:53 PM
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    • #23
    Quote from Don

    Your experience with Philodemus' On Methods of Inference seems like it would be directly relevant here:

    Ah yes and you are reminding me that we have never made much effort to go through that, even though there are long and well preserved sections.

    Joshua we are going to have to figure out where to put this in the list of things to talk about. Probably we need to pull out David Sedley's "On Signs" in addition to all the extensive discussion in the Delacy translation!

    Given the interest in this subject maybe we need to bump it up on this list, but it will definitely take preparation, and probably some review of Sextus Empiricus as well. And it may even be possible that we ought to visit "Academic Questions" first because in a sense that's really the issue that Cicero summarizes for us there.

  • Kalosyni
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    • December 12, 2025 at 9:01 AM
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    • #24

    I just found this, which has a lot more on a priori and a posteriori:

    A Priori and A Posteriori | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

    It seems like we must have some level of logic when we use words and speak - an example is "all bachelors are unmarried" which doesn't require sensation to understand. "On Methods of Inference" seems like an important source to incorporate.

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    • December 12, 2025 at 11:54 AM
    • New
    • #25
    Quote from Kalosyni

    I looked up the difference because I don't use those words in everyday life, and wanted to get a better understanding:

    A priori and a posteriori claims are types of knowledge distinguished by how they're justified:

    A priori knowledge is independent of experience (e.g., math, logic, definitions like "bachelors are unmarried"), known through pure reason; A posteriori knowledge depends on empirical experience and observation (e.g., "it's raining," scientific facts). The former relies on thought, the latter on senses or data from the world.


    I want to strongly agree with this comment. "A priori" and "A prosteriori" are certainly very useful terms in the right circumstances and of course thanks to Joshua for pointing them out. But as Kalosyni says, practically no normal person in real life uses these terms or anything close to them. Not that I am a good model for anything but they just don't connect with me even after years of reading them. I therefore think they aren't the best way to explain this issue to the kind of regular people who are the target audience of Epicureanfriends.com .

    On the other hand the issue being discussed is of huge importance to our target audience. I am hoping we can continue to refine how we explain these issues without reference to Greek or Latin words which smack of "lingo" with which normal people will never be able to be comfortable.

    This is maye the key distinguishing feature of what Epicurean Canonics is all about and we need clear and ordinary terms by which to explain it.

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