1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Modern Books, Articles, and Videos
  4. Other Books On Epicurean Philosophy
  5. Epicurean-Relevant Texts From Or About The 1700's - 1800's; Including Deism.
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Matthew Stewart: "Nature's God, The Heretical Origins Of The American Republic" (2015)

  • Cassius
  • April 1, 2025 at 8:25 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,499
    Posts
    14,030
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 1, 2025 at 8:25 PM
    • #1

    I've seen this book praised many times here in the past by Eikadistes and Joshua so it's well past time we have thread dedicated to it.

    Just in the last week or so have I had time to pick it up, and I have to say I am very impressed so far. This is a subject (usually filed under "Deism") that I started reading into shortly after college, and it had a major impact on my thinking long before I picked up Epicurus. I'm less than a quarter of the way through it but I'm already very impressed by its level of detail, including material on Ethan Allen, whose "Reason The Only Oracle of Man" I read many years ago. But it had not sunk into my consciousness that there was a relationship between him and Thomas Young, a figure that I posted about years ago, but never pursued (that I can recall).

    Thread

    Thomas Young of Massachusetts

    Threadstarter post

    This link comes from Wikipedia on Thomas Young:

    https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cgi/viewconten…=english_theses

    epicureanfriends.com/wcf/attachment/2813/

    (However this sounds like the writer's overlay rather than a cite to Epicurus.)

    Another: Reason and Revolution:  The Radicalism of Thomas Young

    For me, the real litmus test of whether someone was an "Epicurean Influencer" often comes down to: Did they embrace eternal universe rather than a Deistic clockmaker model? Unless they…
    Cassius
    June 16, 2022 at 1:49 PM

    While strictly speaking "Deism" is considered to be closer to the watchmaker model, where the universe was originally created by a supernatural god, and therefore not compatible with Epicurean physics, it seems that there was a lot of variation among the thoughts of those who were labeled as deists, and some of them may indeed have had almost a full Epicurean viewpoint.

    I post this because over time and new people discover this book, I'd like it to have a thread that people can find to add their thoughts. No doubt there are many details about people like Young who are mentioned in the book about whom it would be good to research to look for clues to the development of their thought and Epicurean connections.

    Also, while we always need to steer clear of contemporary partisan politics, I think one of the most important implications of studying these figures is the connection between their "activism" and their Epicurean-adjacent worldviews. It seems like almost a whole generation of people, even those who were not as educated as others, understood that this non-supernatural worldview logically leads to greater, not not lesser, interest in and engagement with the world around them. And rather than living in "fear" or being unwilling to experience any pain at all, they went to a lot of effort and personal risk to pursue living as they thought it should be conducted.

    It's frustrating to read in Stewart's book about how so many of them from Washington and Franklin and even Jefferson kept their views to themselves, no doubt out of concern for what would happen to them if they were too vocal. Even so it is motivating to read about these figures and consider the extent to which we can add to their work given that our environment -- at least for now -- allows many of us to speak a little more openly than was available to them.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,499
    Posts
    14,030
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 8, 2025 at 7:30 PM
    • #2

    Eikadistes - today I finished the chapter in this book on Epicurus - "Epicurus' Dangerous Idea."

    It's got to be one of the deepest treatments of Epicurus that I've read in many a day, and given that it was released as recently as 2015 it's probably one of the longer recent treatments out there - certainly in a book meant for general readership.

    It may not be quite as "broad," but it's a *much* deeper treatment of some of the core ideas than the chapter on Epicurus in Greenblatt's "The Swerve."

    He's giving far more detail than I am familiar with, but one person I wish he had referenced (although she's after the revolutionary period so I can understand her being omitted) was Frances Wright and her Few Days In Athens.

    I'm looking forward to reading it to the end but wanted to re-engage you on your overall impression of the book. Did it lead you to any additional reading on any of the many lesser-known figures that he talks about from the followers of Bruno (Vallini?) on up to the 1800's? It sounds like Thomas Young was a key figure and link to Epicurus.

    There's also a lot of general reflection on how to present revolutionary religious ideas when you know that many people around you aren't ready to hear them.

    This might be one of the best general-interest books to talk about Epicurus since "The Swerve," and it almost certainly deserves more attention than we've given it.

  • Eikadistes
    Garden Bard
    Points
    14,527
    Posts
    843
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    94.7 %
    Bookmarks
    10
    • April 8, 2025 at 8:50 PM
    • #3

    I've read a lot more into Ethan Allen based on the availability of material. Nature's God introduced me to Thomas Young, but he seems to be a bit of a difficult historical figure to pin down in terms of daily activities. This book did two things that really helped me: one was to demonstrate how "Epicurean" our world really is (regardless of the bumper stickers we have), and the other was to help foster a feeling that non-Christians had a big, important, positive part to play in our history.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,499
    Posts
    14,030
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • April 8, 2025 at 9:03 PM
    • #4

    Thanks. I'll have a lot more to say when I finish the book but I'm definitely impressed so far.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Who are capable of figuring the problem out 5

      • Like 1
      • Patrikios
      • June 5, 2025 at 4:25 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Patrikios
      • June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    2. Replies
      5
      Views
      293
      5
    3. Patrikios

      June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
    1. What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity? 31

      • Like 5
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 2, 2025 at 3:35 PM
      • General Discussion
      • sanantoniogarden
      • June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    2. Replies
      31
      Views
      907
      31
    3. Don

      June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
    1. Porphyry - Letter to Marcella -"Vain Is the Word of the Philosopher..." 17

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • June 12, 2023 at 11:34 AM
      • Usener Collection
      • Cassius
      • June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    2. Replies
      17
      Views
      5.8k
      17
    3. Bryan

      June 3, 2025 at 11:17 PM
    1. Daily life of ancient Epicureans / 21st Century Epicureans 38

      • Like 3
      • Robert
      • May 21, 2025 at 8:23 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Robert
      • May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    2. Replies
      38
      Views
      2.8k
      38
    3. Pacatus

      May 29, 2025 at 1:44 PM
    1. Emily Austin's "LIving For Pleasure" Wins Award. (H/T to Lowri for finding this!)

      • Like 4
      • Cassius
      • May 28, 2025 at 10:57 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 28, 2025 at 10:57 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      250

Latest Posts

  • Tsouna's On Choices and Avoidances

    Robert June 8, 2025 at 1:37 AM
  • Episode 285 - Not Yet Recorded - Cicero Attacks Epicurus' PD04 And Says Virtue And Honor Is the Way To Overcome Bodily Pain

    Cassius June 7, 2025 at 3:12 PM
  • Updated Thoughts on the Question of "Peace and Safety" in the Works of Norman Dewitt

    Joshua June 7, 2025 at 2:02 PM
  • Who are capable of figuring the problem out

    Patrikios June 6, 2025 at 6:54 PM
  • What fears does modern science remove, as Epicurean physics did in antiquity?

    Don June 6, 2025 at 2:05 PM
  • Sunday, June 15 - Topic: The Letter of Cosma Raimondi

    Cassius June 6, 2025 at 1:46 PM
  • Welcome Balin!

    sanantoniogarden June 6, 2025 at 1:08 PM
  • Sunday, June 8, 2025 - Discussion Topic - "Practice" In Relation To Pain, Pleasure, and Happiness

    Cassius June 6, 2025 at 9:26 AM
  • What if Kyriai Doxai was NOT a list?

    Don June 5, 2025 at 7:12 AM
  • EpicureanFriends WIKI 2025 - Upgrades, Revisions, Planning

    Cassius June 4, 2025 at 2:23 PM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design