1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
    11. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Uncategorized Discussion (General)
  4. Uncategorized Discussion (General)
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Ancient Epicurean worldview (classes of compounds of atoms)

  • TauPhi
  • September 2, 2024 at 2:44 PM
  • Go to last post

We are now requiring that new registrants confirm their request for an account by email.  Once you complete the "Sign Up" process to set up your user name and password, please send an email to the New Accounts Administator to obtain new account approval.

Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • TauPhi
    03 - Level Three
    Points
    1,897
    Posts
    216
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    92.5 %
    • September 2, 2024 at 2:44 PM
    • #1

    A few of the recent conversations got me thinking and as a result a new perspective on ancient Epicurean worldview emerged in my mind. I'm curious how viable you think the perspective is, my dear EpicureanFriends.

    Firstly, the required Epicurean foundations:
    1) The universe is infinite. (both is geometry and duration)
    2) Atoms and void are infinite (atoms in quantity (but not quality!) and duration, the void in geometry and duration)
    3) Compounds of atoms are finite in quality (there are limits to what can exists due to quality limits of the atoms), duration (they decompose over time) and quality (they are bound to the worlds they create and freed again from the worlds when disintegrated into individual atoms). Examples of compounds: a flower, a planet, a TauPhi.

    Secondly, few conclusions I drew from Epicurean physics that I hope don't violate any Epicurean doctrines:

    1) Passing of time is irrelevant to what is infinite but relevant to what is finite (time might not even exist to what is infinite but the safer conclusion will suffice here).
    2) Epicurean worlds are bubbles of finite amount of compounds of atoms. Each bubble contains a fraction of realised reality (of what is possible in the universe).
    3) There are infinite amount of such bubbles in the universe, they are completely independent of each other (compounds of atoms cannot pass from one world to another) and they all contain some fractions of realised reality.
    4) I call these fractions of realised reality: classes of compounds of atoms. (class of flowers, class of planets, class of TauPhis).
    5) Classes are infinite in quantity (all that can exist must come to existence infinite numbers of times on infinite Epicurean worlds in the infinite universe). Classes are infinite in duration (they exist always, infinite amount of times). The only limits classes have is the limit of quality (as atoms themselves are limited in quality - what can exist in the universe is limited by possible arrangement of limited types of atoms).

    From the above, the crucial is to keep in mind the nature of time, compounds and classes of compounds. Is it possible that the Epicureans came up with something like what follows?

    Every class is godlike in nature. Classes are immortal (they exist always) and blessed (they can't experience passage of time due to their infinity in duration and therefore cannot be disturbed in their blessedness). Separation from other bubbles (the collapse into a singular Epicurean world) removes all infinite 'class' proprieties from compounds of atoms and give them singular, distinctive existence as perishable compounds of atoms that can experience time until they reach complete disintegration.

    This perspective, more or less, elevates some of the problems I personally have with the Epicurean philosophy:

    1) Gods. They no longer have to be something to aspire to (idealistic view) or some super advanced species bending the laws of mortality through technology (realistic view). Gods are neither. They are classes of things that exist infinitely in the universe. The class of TauPhies is godlike. It doesn't make me personally a god at all, however. I am TauPhi that is simply the singular manifestation of what is possible in this world. I don't have a bird's-eye view, nor experience, of the class of TauPhies (or any other class for that matter). All I have is a worm's-eye view, and experience, of the compounds of atoms called TauPhi. All the infinite TauPhies out there are incapable of experiencing the class of TauPhies, the continuity breaks within a singular world and there's no way for any individual TauPhi to become a god whereas the class of TauPhies don't have any choice but to be godlike forever.

    2) The principle of isonomia. The balance of things in the universe is preserved. Even if there are no immortal things in any of the infinite worlds that can be experienced directly from worm's-eye view, there's equal amount of immortal classes of things from bird's-eye perspective of the universe.

    3) I always liked the 'discontinuity' passage in Lucretius. Especially 'immortal death' and 'mortal life' in book 3 (line 869). I always thought of it as a nice poetic description but now I think 'immortal death' (mors inmortalis) taking 'mortal life' (mortalis vita) can be literal description of Epicurean physics. Please read lines 843-869 in book 3 for the context.

    This post is getting way too long. Please mind that the above is not my personal worldview. I just tried to glue the pieces of what was transmitted to our times with my limited reasoning and recreate a possible worldview of ancient Epicureans. Let me know what you think about this attempt.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    106,190
    Posts
    14,549
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • September 2, 2024 at 5:49 PM
    • #2

    In addition to whatever comments follow, for those of us who can be with us tonight in our "First Monday" meeting, I suggest we consider this a topic of discussion,

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Immutability of Epicurean school in ancient times 15

      • Thanks 1
      • TauPhi
      • July 28, 2025 at 8:44 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • TauPhi
      • September 10, 2025 at 7:08 AM
    2. Replies
      15
      Views
      6.2k
      15
    3. Cassius

      September 10, 2025 at 7:08 AM
    1. Boris Nikolsky - Article On His Interest in Classical Philosophy (Original In Russian) 1

      • Thanks 1
      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:21 PM
      • Articles Prepared By Professional Academics
      • Cassius
      • September 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      3.1k
      1
    3. Cassius

      September 8, 2025 at 10:37 AM
    1. Boris Nikolsky's 2023 Summary Of His Thesis About Epicurus On Pleasure (From "Knife" Magazine)

      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:32 PM
      • Articles Prepared By Professional Academics
      • Cassius
      • September 6, 2025 at 5:32 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      2.1k
    1. Edward Abbey - My Favorite Quotes 4

      • Love 4
      • Joshua
      • July 11, 2019 at 7:57 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Joshua
      • August 31, 2025 at 1:02 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      6.5k
      4
    3. SillyApe

      August 31, 2025 at 1:02 PM
    1. A Question About Hobbes From Facebook

      • Cassius
      • August 24, 2025 at 9:11 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • August 24, 2025 at 9:11 AM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      2.7k

Finding Things At EpicureanFriends.com

What's the best strategy for finding things on EpicureanFriends.com? Here's a suggested search strategy:

  • First, familiarize yourself with the list of forums. The best way to find threads related to a particular topic is to look in the relevant forum. Over the years most people have tried to start threads according to forum topic, and we regularly move threads from our "general discussion" area over to forums with more descriptive titles.
  • Use the "Search" facility at the top right of every page. Note that the search box asks you what section of the forum you'd like to search. If you don't know, select "Everywhere." Also check the "Search Assistance" page.
  • Use the "Tag" facility, starting with the "Key Tags By Topic" in the right hand navigation pane, or using the "Search By Tag" page, or the "Tag Overview" page which contains a list of all tags alphabetically. We curate the available tags to keep them to a manageable number that is descriptive of frequently-searched topics.

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  • Episode 298 - TD26 - Facts And Feelings In Epicurean Philosophy - Part 1"

    Don September 15, 2025 at 10:52 PM
  • Episode 299 - TD27 - Was Epicurus Right To Maintain That There Are Only Two Feelings? Not Yet Released

    Cassius September 15, 2025 at 6:22 PM
  • Specific Methods of Resistance Against Our Coming AI Overlords

    Pacatus September 15, 2025 at 3:52 PM
  • Comparing The Pleasure of A Great Physicist Making A Discovery To The Pleasure of A Lion Eating A Lamb

    Cassius September 14, 2025 at 6:09 AM
  • Fragment 32 -- The "Shouting To All Greeks And Non-Greeks That Virtue Is Not The Goal" Passage

    Don September 13, 2025 at 10:32 AM
  • Latest Podcast Posted - "Facts And Feelings In Epicurean Philosophy - Part 1"

    Cassius September 12, 2025 at 4:55 PM
  • The Role of Virtue in Epicurean Philosophy According the Wall of Oinoanda

    Kalosyni September 12, 2025 at 9:26 AM
  • Bodily Sensations, Sentience and AI

    Patrikios September 11, 2025 at 5:05 PM
  • Additional Timeline Details Needed

    Eikadistes September 11, 2025 at 12:15 PM
  • Surviving References To Timasagorus

    Cassius September 10, 2025 at 7:39 AM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Friendship
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Friendship
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design