1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Lexicon
    1. Lexicon Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
    9. Last Changes
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Logbook
    3. EF ToDo List
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • FAQ
  • More Options
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Physics - The Nature Of The Universe
  4. Death Is Nothing To Us - No Immortal Soul

Article By Julia Wildberger - "Happiness despite Mortality: Epicurus' Preparation against Death and Pain in Cic. Tusc. 5.88f"

  • Cassius
  • August 25, 2024 at 12:03 PM
  • Go to last post
  • Online
    Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    • I Too Am An Epicurean
    • Advocate
    • Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host
    • 2025 Contributor
    • Active Member 5 Years or more
    Points
    115,595
    Posts
    15,921
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • August 25, 2024 at 12:03 PM
    • #1

    I haven't had a chance to read this one yet, but looks directly on point with our discussion here in this forum:


    Happiness despite Mortality: Epicurus' Preparation against Death and Pain in Cic. Tusc. 5.88f
    A a close reading of Cic. Tusc. 5.88f., which draws on well known source texts to set out Epicurean reasons why death and pain are no impediments to perfect…
    www.academia.edu
  • Pacatus
    3 - Friend
    Points
    7,017
    Posts
    899
    Quizzes
    5
    Quiz rate
    92.3 %
    • August 25, 2024 at 4:46 PM
    • #2

    Cicero obfuscating and arguing out of both sides of his mouth?! Say it ain’t so! :P

    __________

    Although the main matter here may have to do with mortality, the following struck me:

    “‘Cicero’ conflates both argumentative strategies. On the one hand, he shows (i) that also according to non-virtue single-good schools, the goods required for happiness are available even under adverse circumstances, while conditions regarded as bad are no bads or at least not so bad that it would be impossible to obtain the goods constitutive of happiness. On the other hand, (ii) he attributes to virtue an instrumental function for guaranteeing happiness.

    …

    “All types of real non-virtue goods are sufficiently available for a person to be happy, and there is no reason to suffer from apparent bads that one can despise and disregard (strategy i). However, a person also needs the ability to assess goods and bads correctly, must assume the right attitude toward them and make the right choices. This ability is virtue, understood here as a mind educated to assess correctly what is good or bad so that it does not value what is worthless or fear what is harmless (strategy ii).”

    As I recall, the primary practical (instrumental) virtue for the Stoic Epictetus was what we today would call agency: exercising our ability to choose among options.

    It seems to me that this virtue is precisely what Epicurus emphasizes in our practical ability to choose among (1) the three categories of desires, and (2) pleasures that may lead to pain and pains that, if endured, lead to greater pleasure.

    Possession of this virtue itself does not guarantee happiness (eudaimonia – with due recognition of problematic translation), but only its astute application. Virtue cannot be the only thing necessary for happiness (let alone, as the author mentions earlier, being happiness!) – but rather its instrumental application toward what is happiness: pleasure.

    _______________________

    There, at bottom, seems to be a kind of vicious circularity in the Stoic notion of virtue being the sole necessary and sufficient “good” for eudaimonia – let alone constituting eudaimonia. Virtue is either instrumental or not. Cicero seems to want it both ways.

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Lexicon
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Special Resource Pages
  15. File Database
  16. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Writers and Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  1. Discussion of Article - "Aristotle - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Cassius
    October 28, 2026 at 7:49 PM
  2. Welcome Thomas Karion!

    Kalosyni
    October 28, 2026 at 6:42 PM
  3. Discussion of Article - "Sextus Empiricus - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Pacatus
    October 26, 2026 at 6:06 PM
  4. Heads up: New Book Coming in 2027

    Cassius
    October 26, 2026 at 4:29 PM
  5. Do some people still believe in fate?

    Kalosyni
    October 26, 2026 at 9:27 AM
  6. David Sedley - "Creationism And Its Critics In Antiquity"

    Cassius
    October 26, 2026 at 6:24 AM
  7. Turning to Religion to Make AI Morally Good (Comparing this to Epicurean Philosophy)

    Kalosyni
    October 25, 2026 at 8:07 AM
  8. Sextus Empiricus - Clearly Stating That Skepticism Leads Not To Pleasure But To "Quietude"

    Cassius
    October 25, 2026 at 7:37 AM
  9. Episode 357 - EATAQ39 - Continuing in Part 18 of Book 2 of Academic Questions - Not Yet Recorded

    Cassius
    October 24, 2026 at 5:55 PM
  10. Major Upgrade To Forum Software - Now Completed

    Cassius
    October 23, 2026 at 9:11 PM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
    3. Rules, Terms & Policies
  2. Lexicon
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.2.8
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design