VS66 - Problems With Bailey's Vatican 66

Elli has pointed out another problem with Bailey: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Epicure…55210121194609/

Let's see again another example of a translation in engllish for this E.saying LXVI.(66), which is a tiny sentence.

Ancient greek : Συμπαθῶμεν τοῖς φίλοις οὐ θρηνοῦντες ἀλλὰ φροντίζοντες.

New greek : Συμπαραστεκόμαστε στους φίλους όχι θρηνώντας αλλά φροντίζοντάς τους. (translation from ancient to newgreek is by Takis Panayiotopoulos, founding member in the Garden of Athens)

In english I found the following translations :

1) Let us show our feeling for our lost friends not by lamentation but by meditation. (website by Cassius Amicus)

2) We show our feeling for [deceased] friends, not by wailing, but by pleasant recollection. (translation by Erik Anderson)

3) We show our feeling for our friends' suffering, not with laments, but with thoughtful concern. (website hosted by Vincent Cook)

[Note]: I wonder who were those translators, who knew the ancient greek and english fluently, and found in the above ancient greek text the words such as : "lost", "deceased" and "suffering" friends, as well as where the translators found the words "meditation", "the pleasant recollection", and "the thoughtful concern"???!!!!

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My translation in english, according to the ancient greek that is translated in newgreek correctly, is : "We support (or stand by or help) the friends not by lamenting, but taking care of them".

On the greek word : "θρήνος", and in english "lament". In greek "θρήνος" [thrinos] means an intense and prolonged crying. General expression of intense sadness / pain. In the music is a song that expresses deep sadness. Often it concerns and the death of a man e.g. "the mother lament the loss of her child".

Since in the above E.saying there is no any mentioning for "dead" or "lost" friends, I would like to give an example of an experience in the real life : One of my near and dear friends get sick from cancer. He is inside a hospital or in his home, and when I visit him realizing his weakness and his future coming death, I go outside from his room or in front of him, and I'm crying with an intense and prolonged crying. I feel a deep sadness and a huge pain, but my friend did not die yet, and I ? What I’ am supposed to do, when he would ask me something to help him ? I will lament in front or behind him for his weakness and future coming death ?!

Cassius AmicusGroup Admin Elli you are providing more reasons why I push the Dewitt book and not the Bailey books (which I use only for translations, never for commentary.) DeWitt's translation is much closer to yours than to Bailey - this is page 327:

Panos Alexiou Elli I think the issue with 'thoughtful' creeping in there comes from the root of φροντίδα that is φρον- such as φρόνηση etc. For someone that is not native speaker it can seem like it's about thinking vs caring for.

Cassius Amicus So the original does not even refer to deceased / lost and that is added in?

Panos Alexiou Panos Alexiou There's nothing about dead or gone or anything. I think that crept in by the verb 'to mourn' that is not necessarily for someone that died."We console our friends not by mourning but by caring."Could be a concise and more accurate translation "

Panos Alexiou Panos Alexiou Even console is not a great word. Συμπαθώ is a word that means to share ones problems. So it's basically saying 'dont commiserate with friends, help them.

Cassius Amicus Those seem like a great suggestion Panos. This process shows again how it's important to have people with experience and not just "book learning" do the translating.

Panos Alexiou Commiserate with friends not with mourning but with caring.

Elli Pensa Yes Cassius, because Bailey et al, i.e. the academians, the feeling of a deep sadness is only when their friends have been lost and died !! When their friends got sick in hospitals or homes they just made some phone calls and that was allright with them. And often they give their money to buy flowers for their funeral. I know such kind of persons, I have seen many of them on how they react infront a serious sickness of a supposed friend or a neighbor ! I know how they keep their money inside their wallets or their bank accounts. I have seen them all, and I am so disgusted on this issue ! ?