Festivals or Contemplation??

I have to ask a translation question since it came up it The Next Big Idea episode with Emily Austin.

Emily mentioned there that "Epicureans will enjoy themselves more at festivals than other people." While I like that sentiment, I've seen in some translation from Diogenes Laertius Book 10.120 the English word used is "contemplation" and similar words in place of "festivals." The Greek is θεωρίαις. My own take on my website was "The sage will also enjoy themselves more than others in contemplation, speculation, and theorizing,..." So, is it "festivals" vs "contemplation"?

I could see "festivals" if it referred specifically to state festivals like the Panathenaea or Mysteries since "only" the Epicureans practiced true piety and reverence for the gods. But the ancient Greek word doesn't seem to apply to that kind of festival, also including visits to oracles and the like.

I could also see "contemplation" since even Lucretius talks about Epicurus "traveling" in his mind through the cosmos and bringing back the truth of how things are.

Any thoughts are welcomed and appreciated!

The full notes on my translation are here:

Quote from Todd

Have you checked if any of the "festival" translators offer a justification for their choice?

Unfortunately, I haven't seen any citations or justifications for either "festival" or "contemplation." However, Bailey does give some background for each of the translation options in his Extant Remains:

We also refer to LSJ for interesting citations of different uses:

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, θεωρ-ία

I find No. 4 especially intriguing:

4. Rhet., explanatory preface to a μελέτη, Chor. in Hermes 17.208, etc.: so in Philos., continuous exposition, Olymp.in Mete.18.30, al.

in light of the use of that word in the Letter to Menoikeus in particular:

Meditate day and night then on this and similar things by yourself as well as together with those like yourself.

Ταῦτα οὖν καὶ τὰ τούτοις συγγενῆ μελέτα πρὸς σεαυτὸν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς πρός <τε> τὸν ὅμοιον σεαυτῷ

Quote from Cassius

Great question, but it seems to me every translator (Bailey? Yonge? Others?)use some variation of festival.

I'd like to see what Elli thinks of this too!

Not Yonge. Check out my notes link above:

Hicks: He will take more delight than other men in state festivals.

Yonge: ...and he will find more pleasure than other men in speculations.

Mensch: He will enjoy himself more than others at the state festivals.

It also seems the theōriai were often delegates to other polis's festivals or were ambassadors? Take a look at all the uses of the term even within Diogenes to mean contemplation, etc.

Quote from Cassius

Ok -- As usual it looks like you're doing great work Don.

LOL. Please... Don't... Stop.

That's a good find, Todd ! I had to look up the Greek from U20:

Quote

Quote from Usener

U20

Plutarch, That Epicurus actually makes a pleasant life impossible, 13, p. 1095C: The absurdity of what Epicurus says! On the one hand, he declares in his Problems that the Sage is a lover of spectacles and yields to none in the enjoyment of theatrical recitals and shows; but on the other, he allows no place, even over wine, for questions about music and the inquires of critics and scholars and actually advises a cultivated monarch to put up with recitals of stratagems and with vulgar buffooneries at his drinking parties sooner than with the discussion of problems in music and poetry.

δι᾽ ἀτοπίαν ὧν Ἐπίκουρος λέγει φιλοθέωρον μὲν ἀποφαίνων τὸν σοφὸν ἐν ταῖς Διαπορίαις καὶ χαίροντα παρ᾽ ὁντινοῦν ἕτερον ἀκροάμασι καὶ θεάμασι Διονυσιακοῖς,, προβλήμασι δὲ μουσικοῖς καὶ κριτικῶν φιλολόγοις ζητήμασιν οὐδὲ παρὰ πότον διδοὺς χώραν, ἀλλὰ καὶ τοῖς φιλομούσοις τῶν βασιλέων παραινῶν στρατιωτικὰ διηγήματα καὶ φορτικὰς βωμολοχίας ὑπομένειν μᾶλλον ἐν τοῖς συμποσίοις ἢ λόγους περὶ μουσικῶν καὶ ποιητικῶν προβλημάτων περαινομένους.’

So, the word used for "spectacle" here is θεάμασι Διονυσιακοῖς (dative of θέαμα):

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, θέ-α_μα

along with the Dionysia

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Δι^ονυ_σ-ιακός

Plus Epicurus's book Problems is cited: ἐν ταῖς Διαπορίαις

So, θεωρίας doesn't actually appear in Plutarch's passage. So, technically, both can be true: taking pleasure in festivals and contemplation. The be whole ambassador connotation of θεωρία still inclines me against reading that as festival since "contemplation" seems to be such a common translation elsewhere.

The Perseus translation of the patch Plutarch passage gives:

Quote from Plutarch

by reason of the inconsistency of what Epicurus saith, when he pronounceth in his book called his Doubts that his wise man ought to be a lover of public spectacles and to delight above any other man in the music and shows of the Bacchanals; and yet he will not admit of music problems or of the critical enquiries of [p. 177] philologists, no, not so much as at a compotation. Yea, he advises such princes as are lovers of the Muses rather to entertain themselves at their feasts either with some narration of military adventures or with the importune scurrilities of drolls and buffoons, than to engage in disputes about music or in questions of poetry.

I'll say that "some narration of military adventures or ...the importune scurrilities of drolls and buffoons" sounds like more fun at a symposium than disputes about music or poetry.

Quote from Joshua

When θεωρίαις passed into Latin as theōria, it was reduced to a single definition: contemplation/speculation. Festivals was lost.

This is a great catch!!

Plus, check out the Etymology Online entry for the English word **Theory**:

1590s, "conception, mental scheme," from Late Latin theoria (Jerome), from Greek theōria "contemplation, speculation; a looking at, viewing; a sight, show, spectacle, things looked at," from theōrein "to consider, speculate, look at," from theōros "spectator," from thea "a view" (see theater) + horan "to see," which is possibly from PIE root *wer- (3) "to perceive." Philosophy credits sense evolution in the Greek word to Pythagoras.

I was curious to see what Plutarch was saying specifically what Epicurus was advocating for as opposed to "disputes about music or in questions of poetry."

So, I should say that it's not clear if Epicurus was actually saying one should *prefer* "some narration of military adventures or ...the importune scurrilities of drolls and buffoons" over the "disputes about music or in questions of poetry" or was being hyperbolic. Maybe he was talking more about attending symposia in the first place. If you are planning one, don't ruin it with disputes about poetry and music. If you're going that route, you might as well go all in and tell crude tales told by soldiers and present crude jokes and "coarse, vulgar buffoonery."

στρατιωτικὰ διηγήματα καὶ φορτικὰς βωμολοχίας

στρατιωτικὰ διηγήματα (stratiōtika diēgēmata) = tales of/for soldiers or military matters. There's also an adverb form of στρατιωτικὰ that connotes "like a rude soldier, brutal" so take that for what it's worth.

φορτικὰς βωμολοχίας (portikas bōmolochias)

Wikipedia: Bomolochus

In the theatre of ancient Greece, the bômolochus (Ancient Greek: βωμολόχος) was one of three stock characters in comedy, corresponding to the English buffoon. The bômolochus is marked by his wit, his crudity of language, and his frequent non-illusory audience address.

In modern Greek, the word refers to a foul-mouthed person.

Books and papers...

The Boastful Chef

books.google.com

https://camws.org/sites/default/files/meeting2016/406.Bomolochia.pdf

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23324452

I don't know. Sounds like a fun time!