Philodemus' Poetry

I found this site with Philodemus’ epigrammatic poetry in translation: http://www.attalus.org/poetry/philodemus.html

“Philodemus was an Epicurean philosopher as well as a poet, but his poems seem to have had a greater reputation than his philosophical works in ancient times.”

I was surprised at the tone of erotic gaiety in many of them – they reminded me of, say, Sir John Suckling or Robert Herrick (both 17th century) in English poetry; or of the more modern e.e. cummings.

Apparently the original Greek was in stanza form of no more than eight lines, and I attempt to re-render them that way (albeit my lines may not match up with the Greek – which you can read by clicking the “G” that accompanies the epigram). The following, for example, reminds of Herrick's “To the Virgins, to Make Much of Time” (here: https://poets.org/poem/virgins-make-much-time) –

Your summer's flower hath not yet burst from the bud,

the grape that puts forth its first virgin charm is yet green,

but already the young Loves sharpen their swift arrows,

Lysidicē, and a hidden fire is smouldering. Let us fly,

we unlucky lovers, before the arrow is on the string:

I foretell right soon a vast conflagration.

(Maybe Don can provide a better line-by-line translation from the Greek.)

I'm trying to render this poem into a modern English version (with my own interpretive edits, additions and wordplay). I'm working with the translation in Attalus since Greek is "Greek" to me. But here is the result from the Google translator:

even for those who live naked in the summer, it does not darken

botrys the virgin of firstborn grace:

but already those young bows are becoming Loves,

Lysidiki, and fire is buried in burial.

we flee, unloved ones, until an arrow is on the nerve:

I am a diviner of great fire.

This seems a bit less lusty than the translation on Attalus. But I'm still searching.

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Here is another translation from DeepL:

As the naked summer covers thee, no bruising of the virgin's maidenly firstfruits: but already there are new bows and arrows, Lysidice, and fire is being kindled. Let us flee, unhappy, until the arrow is not on the nerves: I am a seer of a great ear of fire.

This is a loose rendering in my attempt to draft from a couple translations(and my raw grappling with the Greek) a more modern poetic form – with my own interpretive edits, additions and wordplay. Thus, it’s a free rendering, not a translation.

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Lysidikē

– A free rendering from a Greek poem by Philodemus

Your summer’s bloom not yet burst
from naked buds, nor yet dark
the tender virginal grapes
soon to ripen full-fruit charms –

but already in their vigor
plucky impassioned archer-lads
swift-flighting flame-arrows hone
from embers smoldering within.

Let us then fly, dear Lysidikē,
we unlucky lovers, before
the nock is notched on their bowstring:
I fear a lusty wildfire looms.

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Lysidikē (Λυσιδίκη) is the name of several women in Greek myth, one of whom “lay” with Heracles and bore him a son, Teles.

“nock”: the notch on the shaft of an arrow to fit it to the bowstring; also the act of fitting.

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Here is the Greek:

οὔπω σοι καλύκων γυμνὸν θέρος οὐδὲ μελαίνει

βότρυς ὁ παρθενίους πρωτοβολῶν χάριτας,

ἀλλ’ ἤδη θοὰ τόξα νέοι θήγουσιν Ἔρωτες,

Λυσιδίκη, καὶ πῦρ τύφεται ἐγκρύφιον.

φεύγωμεν, δυσέρωτες, ἕως βέλος οὐκ ἐπὶ νευρῇ·

μάντις ἐγὼ μεγάλης αὐτίκα πυρκαϊῆς.

Don

Thanks! Yeah, I go to Wiktionary first (mostly I work with the Latin), and sometimes just start Googling. I forgot about LSJ -- thanks for that!

The Silent Lamp

– A free rendering from a Greek poem by Philodemus

The loyal nightstand lamp keeps silent:
confidante of intimate affairs
we dare not speak of, even in the dark.

But intoxicate her wick with perfumed oil,
Philaenis, inflame the room with light –
and leave us alone behind locked door.

For Eros desires no living witness
other than herself, Xantho – as in our bed
we explore Aphrodite’s ecstatic lore.

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From Epigram 5.4 of The Greek Anthology cited above. In addition to that translation, I also consulted Nisbet’s translation from “Epigrams from the Greek Anthology: a new translation by Gideon Nesbit” (Oxford World Classics, 2020); here is his translation:

The silent lamp, complicit partner in

The things we mustn’t speak of carelessly:

Philaenis, make it drunk with drops of oil.

Then take your leave: for Love alone desires

No living witness; close the jointed door.

And you, dear Xantho—but the lover’s bed

Well knows what Aphrodite has in store.

I’ve been laboring for some weeks on a poem called “An Ode on Philodemus and His Loves.” The poem has references to at least most (if not all) of the women Philodemus wrote about as lovers, and allusions to how he wrote about them. A translation of those poems is available here: https://www.attalus.org/poetry/philodemus.html. (Also in Nate’s Hedonicon.)

I tried my hand at a couple of free renderings into modern verse (with poetic/metaphorical license) of a couple of Philodemus’ erotic poems here (above) in this thread. My “Ode” is no more erotically explicit than Philodemus (but likely not less so either). My plan (when I have “finished” it) is to publish it either here or in the “Poetry in Honor of Epicureanism” thread. But if it is likely to cause offense (and the guide may be my renderings above), then I just will not.

Guidance sought …

Quote from Cassius

but maybe you could send a sample to Joshua and he could share with the other moderators.

Will do, as soon as I get a bit closer to completion. Thank you.

While working on my Philodemus poem, I just stumbled on the book The Epigrams of Philodemos: Introduction, Text, and Commentary by David Sider. Now I feel the need to read it before continuing. But, in the early pages, he broaches a very interesting topic: that the relationship between various sub-schools of Epicureanism was not all peace and light. Philodemus was loyal to his teacher Zeno of Sidon, and engaged in “much internecine polemic” with the Epicureans of Rhodes (where Philodemus may have also studied for awhile).

Quote from Cassius

Anything significant you think worth discussion about that, please post a new thread - perhaps in the subforum on Philodemus

Will do. I'll keep this thread on topic to Philodemus' poetry.

A quote from Sider’s book:

“In addition to the above considerations in the proper assessment of poetry, another important criterion requires that hearing or reading the poem in question provide its audience with pleasure of a correct Epicurean sort. In brief, as Asmis ably demonstrates, Epicurus, despite what later detractors said of him, was willing to accept poetry, although with reservations. In particular, the wise man could be trusted to have the proper attitude, able to listen to the recitation of poetry without succumbing to its Sirenic charms or accepting its claims to do anything more than provide harmless pleasure. Poetry, that is, can be classified in Epicurean terms as a natural but unnecessary pleasure. As such it was allowed a place at the banquets attended by Epicureans, where, at least originally, it was listened to but not subjected to immediate literary criticism, which would detract from the pleasure. … It is thus possible to apply Philodemos' general view of poetry to the epigram in particular, as the performance of epigrams at dinner parties (see above) fits perfectly into our picture of the symposia held in the Epicurean Gardens of Naples and surroundings.”

Joshua and I discussed some of this briefly before at RE: Introduction---Joshua's Notes on "The Good Poem According to Philodemus", by Michael McOsker

Another interesting comment by Sider in a footnote: “Like Aristotle, Philodemus demands ordinary human values. Differently from Aristotle, however, Philodemus clearly distinguishes the ‘thought’ of the poem as a whole, as presented by the poet, from the thought of the characters."