Would There Be Benefit In Adapting the "Benjamin Franklin Journaling Model" To Our Discussion of Practical Exercises?

When I was in high school I had his 12 precepts tacked to my wall.

Ironically number 13 that you cite is not original. He added it, if I recall, in response to a reader complaint. I remember an illustration for 12 🤔...something about not bringing ill-repute on yourself or your partner? I'll have to look into it later.

This list would definitely require a re-do for an Epicurean! Not just the descriptions but many of the headings, the ones that jump out to me being at least: frugality, industry, tranquility and chastity.

An interesting idea though and one that wouldn't have occurred to me as I tend to have a more loosey goosey approach to life

Haven't looked at the results yet but thought y'all might find these interesting:

https://founders.archives.gov/index.xqy?q=Pr…=1511211111&r=1

Franklin referred to this list as a list of "virtues". Since the greatest good to an Epicurean is pleasure and not virtue, might this be a problem with the list?

Joshua referred to the items as "precepts;" another possibility is to call them instrumental virtues, as in instrumental to pleasure. It seems necessary to clarify this in order to avoid any confusion with Stoicism and the like. Offhand it seems like PD5 would be a guide, probably other doctrines as well. Also DeWitt has a chapter on The New Virtues although to me it's just a start and needs further thought.

It's important to remember that the word often translated as "virtue" in the Greek is αρετή aretē http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…7:entry=a)reth/ St-Andre (and others) sometimes use the word "excellence" because to him "virtue" had a Victorian air about it. Wikipedia has a nice intro: This excerpt especially is interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete?wprov=sfla1 "this notion of excellence was ultimately bound up with the notion of the fulfillment of purpose or function: the act of living up to one's full potential." Anyway, "virtue" can be misleading although it gets complicated with all the Greek philosophers using αρετή ... However, maybe they were talking about the same thing and different perspectives.

All that being said, I am fine with considering Epicurean "excellences" of:

Frugality (living within one's means)

Tranquility (ataraxia is a pleasure, too)

Frankness (honest speech, sincerity?)

Justice (neither harm nor being harmed)

And others, but for now, consider that my contribution to this conversation.

To me, there should be better words for frugality and tranquility, based on previous forum discussions. I understand what you're saying though, Don .

I would add prudence, friendship and gratitude to the list. I think prudence could replace frugality....

As for PD5, prudence (or wisdom) and justice are pretty clear but I'm not sure what to make of "honor." It seems like there may be a better word for that. Maybe "honesty?" It’s obviously a good thing to live honorably, at least the way I understand it in the context of PD5. But it could be interpreted in terms of "honor culture" which I think is the opposite of what is Instrumental to pleasure.

http://psychology.iresearchnet.com/social-psychol…lture-of-honor/

Quote from Godfrey

As for PD5, prudence (or wisdom) and justice are pretty clear but I'm not sure what to make of "honor." It seems like there may be a better word for that.

One of the difficulties with PD5 is that the word used is καλώς, the adverbial form of καλός (kalos). Two give an idea of the wide -although positive - concept conveyed by that word, here are some viable translations:

admirable, artistic, auspicious, beautiful, buxom, comely, creditable, elegant, estimable, excellent, exquisite, fair, favourable, fine, fortunate, good, goodly, handsome, happy, high-principled, honourable, hopeful, lovely, lucky, noble, ornamental, picturesque, plausible, principled, promising, propitious, reputable, righteous, skilful, virtuous, well-favoured

Quote from Cassius

Further on the implications of the word "virtue" is not the Latin form grounded in the implications of "strength"?

I don't know who this person is that posted this, but I thought this was interesting: http://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/words/arete.htm

You're right about the Latin "virtus"

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…59:entry=virtus

It's related to "vir" meaning man.

Trivia: it's pronounced [wir] which is where werewolf comes from.

I'm all for it!

As a fan of practical philosophy, Franklin's Virtues are quite the model for self-development, and can be adapted to most any philosophical or religious outlook, or lack thereof.

Don't get so caught up in the semantics of his original list. He could be a bit cheeky at times (he in fact was joking about himself in number 13, as he knew believed even imitating Jesus and Socrates would be impossible. He had a good sense of humor on him.)

For number 12 regarding chastity, it originally read as "Rarely use venery but for health or offspring; never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation."

Honestly considering the times, this is a rather progressive view on sexual relations, as rather than condemn or deny, he seemed to acknowledge that's just what people do.

Honestly I find his parameters for it to be quite in line with traditional Epicureanism.