1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. Home
    1. Start Here: Study Guide
    2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
    3. Terms of Use
    4. Moderator Team
    5. Site Map
    6. Quizzes
    7. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    8. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  2. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics Wiki
    5. Canonics Wiki
    6. Ethics Wiki
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Physics
    4. Canonics
    5. Ethics
    6. Uncategorized Forum
    7. Study Resources Forum
    8. Ancient Texts Forum
    9. Shortcuts
    10. Featured
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Canonics - The Tests of Truth
  4. Canonics - General Discussion and Navigation
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Dialectics and Hypothetical Questions

  • Cassius
  • January 18, 2021 at 7:05 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,915
    Posts
    14,091
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 18, 2021 at 7:05 PM
    • #1

    We have been discussing hypothetical questions in the PD10 thread, but I think this topic deserves a thread of its own in the end, for the additional reason that I think it is probably related to the term "dialectics." It seems to me that hypotheticals is what Socrates/Plato were dealing in extensively, and I see several sentences in Diogenes Laertius that are translated variously as "dialectics" or "logic" - Does anyone know which term is better and if so why they are interchanged? By no means are the two issues the same (Dialectics and Hypothetical Questions) but I suspect both involve very similar issues:




  • Elayne
    03 - Member
    Points
    3,093
    Posts
    455
    • January 18, 2021 at 7:32 PM
    • #2

    As I understand it (leaving out later meanings such as in Marxism), it meant using logical arguments to arrive at the truth. That doesn't mean all discussions are dialectical, and IMO the difference is that we would use evidence, including referring to feeling, in our discussion. We are not using flights of logic to get an answer but referring to our experiences and how we feel about things. Predicting how we might feel about possible future events (hypotheticals) is not the same as using logic, because we are drawing on our experience.


    I think Plato also used it in reference to discussion of ideals. Which we aren't doing.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,915
    Posts
    14,091
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 18, 2021 at 7:42 PM
    • #3

    Don (who likes to dive into the Greek) I was taken aback when I pasted this because I was going to paste from the Bailey version I have here, and I see Bailey used "logic" and "logicians" rather than dialectics / dialecticians. The pastes above are from Wikisource which is Hicks

    Any thoughts?

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    40,004
    Posts
    5,568
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    92.8 %
    • January 18, 2021 at 8:16 PM
    • #4

    Metrodorus's book is entitled:

    Πρὸς τοὺς διαλεκτικούς.

    Pros tous dialektikous

    Here's the LSJ for that:

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=dialektikou%2Fs&la=greek&can=dialektikou%2Fs0&prior=tou\s&d=Perseus:text:1999.01.0257:book=10:chapter=1&i=1#lexicon

  • Charles
    03 - Member
    Points
    2,582
    Posts
    348
    Quizzes
    4
    Quiz rate
    88.9 %
    • January 18, 2021 at 8:18 PM
    • #5

    Other translations, specifically Yonge and Thayer also use the word dialectic instead of logic. I would say that using the former is much more appropriate, as not only does it make more sense when we compare it to the sophists and Socrates/Plato, in that the Socratic Method is itself a form of dialectic. Not only that, but as often as we dismiss formal logic, using the word "Logic" itself is very challenging and difficult given how many definitions and interpretations of what it exactly means and is defined, something we know well from the PD 10 Discussion and the most recent podcast episode.

    “If the joys found in nature are crimes, then man’s pleasure and happiness is to be criminal.”

  • Cassius June 15, 2021 at 2:49 PM

    Moved the thread from forum The Three Components of The Epicurean Canon - The Canon of Truth Generally to forum Epicurean Methods of Reasoning And Determining Truth.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. The Religion of Nature - as supported by Lucretius' De Rerum Natura 4

      • Thanks 1
      • Kalosyni
      • June 12, 2025 at 12:03 PM
      • General Discussion of "On The Nature of Things"
      • Kalosyni
      • June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      504
      4
    3. Godfrey

      June 23, 2025 at 12:36 AM
    1. New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

      • Thanks 2
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      905
    1. Does The Wise Man Groan and Cry Out When On The Rack / Under Torture / In Extreme Pain? 19

      • Cassius
      • October 28, 2019 at 9:06 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    2. Replies
      19
      Views
      1.7k
      19
    3. Cassius

      June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    1. Best Lucretius translation? 9

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 8:40 AM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    2. Replies
      9
      Views
      398
      9
    3. Cassius

      June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    1. New Translation of Epicurus' Works 1

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 3:50 PM
      • Uncategorized Discussion (General)
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      358
      1
    3. Cassius

      June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM

Latest Posts

  • Prolepsis of the gods

    Godfrey June 25, 2025 at 7:54 PM
  • Episode 288 - Tusculan Disputations Part 3 - "Will The Wise Man Feel Grief?" Not Yet Recorded

    Cassius June 25, 2025 at 7:08 PM
  • What amount of effort should be put into pursuing pleasure or removing pain?

    Godfrey June 25, 2025 at 6:09 PM
  • Is Western Civilization & Technology an Impediment to Getting Certain Human Needs Met?

    Kalosyni June 25, 2025 at 10:14 AM
  • Happy Birthday General Thread

    Cassius June 25, 2025 at 4:06 AM
  • Episode 287 - TD17 - The Fear of Pain Is Overrated, But Cicero and Epicurus Disagree As To Why.

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 7:20 PM
  • Sunday Zoom (Sun, Jun 1st 2025, 12:30 pm – 1:30 pm)

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 11:53 AM
  • General Suggestion Thread for the FAQ

    Cassius June 24, 2025 at 7:26 AM
  • Forum Restructuring & Refiling of Threads - General Discussion Renamed to Uncategoried Discussion

    Cassius June 23, 2025 at 7:05 PM
  • Venus and Mars - "Good" vs. "Evil"?

    Cassius June 23, 2025 at 3:27 PM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design