1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Member Announcements
    7. Site Map
    8. Quizzes
    9. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
    10. All Blog Posts
      1. Elli's Blog / Articles
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. Sunday Zoom Meetings
    5. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    6. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    7. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    8. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Epicurean Texts
  4. Lucretius - On The Nature of Things
  5. De Rerum Natura - Major Topic Categories
  6. Images
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Use and Misuse of "Images" and "Fantastic Impressions"

  • Cassius
  • March 14, 2017 at 5:13 PM
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
Sunday Weekly Zoom.  This and every upcoming Sunday at 12:30 PM EDT we will continue our new series of Zoom meetings targeted for a time when more of our participants worldwide can attend.   This week's discussion topic: "Epicurean Prolepsis". To find out how to attend CLICK HERE. To read more on the discussion topic CLICK HERE.
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    102,716
    Posts
    14,060
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • March 14, 2017 at 5:13 PM
    • #1

    There is mention in Lucretius about how images floating throug the air strike us, even when we are asleep, and that these images striking our brains (at least, not through our *open* eyes) create stimulation that leads to dreams and sometimes thinking we see things that we really don't.

    (1) One problem is if people use this to conclude that we are seeing pictures of real gods moving among us. That would be wrong and would be a "false anticipation" because we know from other reasoning about the gods that they are perfectly blissful, and in the intermundia, and so there is no way we are going to see them moving around us. Even if we received images all the way from the intermundia (which apparently there was speculation that we do), those images would only be of blissful and perfect beings who have no interest in us.

    (2) Another problem is that some later Epicureans elevated this process of receiving images, forming a concept, and then comparing those concepts to what we see in the future. (I think DeWitt speculates probably in response to Stoic drumbeating about the importance of logic.) And they considered this extended process to be a "fourth leg of the canon" in addition to the three that Epicurus had stated. The error here is that "concepts" are formed in our mind only after we make judgments about what we get from the three canonical faculties, and the process of making judgments involves opinion and the possibility of error. Thus although this process of forming concepts is very important and useful, it is not safe to call it a "test of truth" because the concept we are using could be erroneous. Yes any sensation can be erroneous, but we trust the canonical faculties to be programmed by nature and not by ourselves. Concepts formed by our judgment/opinion could be totally erroneous and are not subject to the same natural correction mechanism as for example "looking twice" would do it for the eyes.

    The second issue is a generalization of the first. We would conclude that a concept of an actively intervening god is a "false opinion/concept" because it is not based on any proof and it is contradicted by other evidence (our other observations from images and our reasoning about things that are "perfect"). If the person arguing for the false concept of an active god is alleging that he saw a vision of a god visiting him, then we can't necessarily rule out that he saw "something," because all sorts of images are flying through the air. But we would conclude that his perception of the image was distorted or a "false anticipation" in the same way that we see images of oars in water being distorted. Just like with vision or any other sense, a perception from a canonical faculty is reported "truly" (honestly) but that is not to say that the perception conveys all the facts accurately.

    Those are the two issues I see being raised most often about the flow of atoms and how we process them. Going in the direction of a "fourth leg of the canon" has the potential to let the nose of dialectical logic into the canon. The people who think that the existence of images can be used to prove the existence of active gods are not considering that these images can be distorted, and distorted images can be just as false to the facts as a view of a tower that appears round at a distance but is really square.

    Note: Letter to Menoeceus (Bailey) For gods there are, since the knowledge of them is by clear vision. But they are not such as the many believe them to be: for indeed they do not consistently represent them as they believe them to be. And the impious man is not he who popularly denies the gods of the many, but he who attaches to the gods the beliefs of the many. For the statements of the many about the gods are not conceptions derived from sensation, but false suppositions, according to which the greatest misfortunes befall the wicked and the greatest blessings (the good) by the gift of the gods. For men being accustomed always to their own virtues welcome those like themselves, but regard all that is not of their nature as alien.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

      • Thanks 2
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
    2. Replies
      0
      Views
      263
    1. Does The Wise Man Groan and Cry Out When On The Rack / Under Torture / In Extreme Pain? 19

      • Cassius
      • October 28, 2019 at 9:06 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    2. Replies
      19
      Views
      1.5k
      19
    3. Cassius

      June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
    1. Best Lucretius translation? 9

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 8:40 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    2. Replies
      9
      Views
      278
      9
    3. Cassius

      June 19, 2025 at 3:01 PM
    1. New Translation of Epicurus' Works 1

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 3:50 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Eikadistes
      • June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM
    2. Replies
      1
      Views
      293
      1
    3. Cassius

      June 16, 2025 at 6:32 PM
    1. Superstition and Friday the 13th 6

      • Like 2
      • Kalosyni
      • June 13, 2025 at 8:46 AM
      • General Discussion
      • Kalosyni
      • June 16, 2025 at 3:40 PM
    2. Replies
      6
      Views
      409
      6
    3. Eikadistes

      June 16, 2025 at 3:40 PM

Latest Posts

  • Sunday June 22 - Topic: Prolepsis

    Patrikios June 21, 2025 at 5:15 PM
  • Online Travel Videos of Samos

    Kalosyni June 21, 2025 at 9:08 AM
  • Welcome Alrightusername!

    Cassius June 20, 2025 at 7:48 PM
  • Philodemus On Piety

    Cassius June 20, 2025 at 4:47 PM
  • Episode 286 - Confronting Pain With Reason Rather Than With "Virtue"

    Cassius June 20, 2025 at 4:34 PM
  • New Blog Post From Elli - " Fanaticism and the Danger of Dogmatism in Political and Religious Thought: An Epicurean Reading"

    Cassius June 20, 2025 at 4:31 PM
  • Does The Wise Man Groan and Cry Out When On The Rack / Under Torture / In Extreme Pain?

    Cassius June 20, 2025 at 1:53 PM
  • Happy Twentieth of June 2025!

    Kalosyni June 20, 2025 at 1:48 PM
  • Epigram on the Twentieth

    Don June 20, 2025 at 6:25 AM
  • New Article On The Location of the Garden

    Don June 19, 2025 at 6:43 PM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design