The (belated) Decline of Christianity in the United States

Oh no, no problem with that post at all. I am seeing more and more attacks on standard Christianity from both left and right. The increasing polarization of the country, no matter what side one takes on it, is just exposing the impotence of traditional religion to deal with those divisive issues.

Dealing with religion is such a fundamental part of Epicurean history and Epicurean philosophy that I think it stands in very different status from the standard "political" issues that are the real flashpoints and that get us distracted from the core ideas. "Religion" and the problems that arise from it are about as core Epicurean issue as anything can be.

Joshua I personally see those initiatives as kind of like the continuing anti-abortion emphasis in some legislatures -- they are on the losing side of history and there are enough of them around yet to cause trouble, but they are mostly older people (of course there are exceptions) and their numbers are declining. And even on the "right" where they identify themselves, they are losing their grip on their own constituents. I think that a significant result of Epicurean "activism" would add to their further and faster decline, but I do think there's a uniquely Epicurean perspective about WHY they are wrong that avoids muddying the Epicurean message.

I think it takes so long because it's changing generationally. It's not that older adults are leaving the churches so much as they are dying and being replaced, right? That's slow, but I hope will steadily continue!

and I wonder how many middle aged folks will stop going to church when their religious parents die. Possibly a good number-- if so there should be a steeper rise in nonreligious in that age group soon.

Quote from Elayne

It's not that older adults are leaving the churches so much as they are dying and being replaced, right?

Or in my observation in the traditional "mainline" churches, they are dying and NOT being replaced (maybe that was a typo, but maybe its a reference to how the churches are trying to reinvent themselves).

But in many cases it worries me that what is following behind to fill the vacuum in social structure is not much better, and in some cases worse, than before. If it is "social media" or Hollywood / New York glitter media culture (not sure what the best word is for it) that is taking the place of the old community churches, then something already rotten is being replaced by something in many cases more rotten still. Maybe one symptom is the rise of meth and other drugs, and the apparent rise (or so I read) in suicide.

I meant the generation is dying and being replaced by the next (nonreligious) generation, not the churches-- unclear antecedent for sure!

Around here, I see the younger crowd doing a lot of a mashup of various new age stuff. In some of the liberal churches, the older crowd actually does view the whole thing metaphorically (like Spong), although that still leaves the bad philosophy in place. But the new age stuff gets taken literally. Crystals and quantum woo, etc. Everything as one consciousness, "you create your own reality", "the law of attraction"... taking the Heisenberg principle that the act of measuring phenomena at the subatomic scale influences the experimental results, so that we can measure position of the particle OR the velocity but not both at the same time, to thinking that means we can basically bend spoons with our minds 😂. Bad science and bad philosophy all at once!

Quote from Elayne

taking the Heisenberg principle that the act of measuring phenomena at the subatomic scale influences the experimental results, so that we can measure position of the particle OR the velocity but not both at the same time, to thinking that means we can basically bend spoons with our minds

Or taking it to mean that everything is so chaotic that NOTHING can be predicted or counted on, so hey,what the heck, let's just give up trying and get drugged out!

Yeah in that case they aren't even citing a remotely relevant principle lol-- they thinking about probabilistic quantum physics, probably, not so much how the act of measurement changes what is being measured. Related but different issues.

I didn't know Turkey banned Darwin!

Now the only three more or less secular countries with Muslim majorities are Tunisia and Bosnia and Albania. Sad.