⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

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Epicurean Rings / Jewelry / Coins / Mementos

So the sources say that ancient Epicureans had votive busts and specifically mentions that they also wore RINGS with the likeness of Epicurus. Here is a sample I got of what an Epicurus ring would look like, as a possible product for my business thetwentiers.com. It's a small ring, but it expands, and the face of Epicurus does not fit entirely into it but it still looks like Epicurus. Do others think there is a market for this?

Hiram

April 22, 2019 at 6:38 PM

I'd also bring up that saints' medals and crucifixes (with the body of Jesus) still are popular with the Catholic crowd, ex. https://www.smalldevotions.com/collections/catholic-medals

Additionally, Julia , if you or anyone would like to wear a waning gibbous moon as a personal expression of a dedication to Epicurean philosophy, I think that would be great. The 20er moon is a nice graphic symbol. I just remain skeptical of the ability of our little forum to essentially vote (in the widest sense) on a new symbol to represent the school and to have it catch on. I could be wrong, but even in this thread there are a myriad of reactions to it. Unfortunately, the waning gibbous moon symbol *as a symbol* doesn't appear to have historical precedent for the school although the name "Twentier" was definitely applied historically to the Epicureans. The face of Epicurus does have historical foundations to being displayed by students of the school, enough so to even be mocked by Cicero (it was Cicero, right?).

Quote from Don

and to have it catch on

I'm willing to try – it's not like we need to invest our life savings or anything – and just see where we end up amongst ourselves and what happens in dialogue with other groups; same as the initial ⟐ proposition which started the thread. Even if whatever we come up with won't take the world by storm tomorrow, I still see value in having the conversation

Quote from Don

saints' medals and crucifixes (with the body of Jesus) still are popular with the Catholic crowd

They do use them, but – in my personal experience – I don't remember anyone wearing it openly in an everyday setting. To stick with my example, I cannot recount a bank teller openly sporting one of these as a necklace, in contrast to, say, plain crosses or stars of david, and that applies to deeply catholic areas as well. If they wear one of the ones you liked, they're mostly out of sight underneath a shirt, attached to a wall, or glued to the dashboard of the vehicle

Thank you for the thread you liked; I'll check that out!

Quote from Julia

I'm willing to try – it's not like we need to invest our life savings or anything – and just see where we end up

As Don would say BY ZEUS that's the kind of attitude we need here on lots of things!

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Julia

I'm willing to try – it's not like we need to invest our life savings or anything – and just see where we end up

As Don would say BY ZEUS that's the kind of attitude we need here on lots of things!

I appreciate the enthusiasm; but, honestly, I'm not sure what "trying" looks like in this context. I swear I don't want to be difficult. However, it seems to me we can't even come to a consensus on this thread. And if we did, what then? Everyone starts using it (is mandated to use it?) on social media. Everyone buys a hat or jewelry with THE symbol on it and starts wearing it? And how to get the Society of Epicurus to buy in? They're using the Tau/Phi combo symbol. It's a fun discussion, but I don't understand the logistics of getting something to the point of catching on.

As far as I am concerned, I'm already happy with what we've got so far. What would make things even better, is if we found something that clicked with most of us here. To me, so far, that's definitely the 20er moon with four atoms (diamond) – or maybe five (sideways rhombus with a dot in the middle).

Personally, I'll not expect anyone to evangelise or use it or "buy a hat"
After that, if anyone is in touch with other groups, and likes to play ping-pong back with the "It's been a few years, but here is the epicureanfriends.com answer to the ⟐ suggestion -- what do y'all think about it?" that would be great.

I think just putting things out there and letting the free market of ideas sort it out is fine, unless, of course, you have a secret advertising budget I'm not yet aware of

For example, I liked the scroll with a Latin inscription shown in this post and might get one with, for example, the spelled out SFOTSE on it. For me, it's firstly about finding a way to…have explicitly Epicurean items about myself, be that a ring, bracelet, necklace – or a trucker cap, and secondly, I'm quite certain that having a symbol like that would serve our cause of spreading the word (but I myself just happen to not be much of a missionary type of person)

You see: Even if SoE reject whatever we suggest, that's still dialogue and they might have a counter proposal. Other than "this feels like a waste of time" (which is fine to feel that way) I don't see what we have to lose

Instead of superimposing it onto the illuminated section of the lunar surface, I tried to turn Epicurus' profile itself into the moon's surface, if you see what I mean? I'm no good at graphic design, so bear with me… (Please note I reused the AI-generated profile from this post earlier in the same thread.)

I think a version of this which isn't broken in half a dozen ways might be good, but then…how to simplify the profile further without losing it's characteristics…

PS: When did "Twentier" start to be used to refer to adherents of the Epicurean school? Would this be Ancient Greek or Latin? Can anyone copy & paste the actual letters here? I have no idea how Greek numerals (…-th & …-er) work…

Eikadistes: You can probably point me to the sources for this? ↑ I know it's in your name, but I don't quite know what is anachronistic and what isn't, and so forth. (I speak neither Latin nor Greek.)

Julia, Don has a write-up that might be relevant to your question here.

And here is a thread where the question of Epicurus' birthday was raised in 2022.

Edit: another thread in the chain that led to the current paper by Don.

Quote from Julia

You see: Even if SoE reject whatever we suggest, that's still dialogue and they might have a counter proposal. Other than "this feels like a waste of time" (which is fine to feel that way) I don't see what we have to lose

While I would be shocked if there were wide consensus among existing Epicurean aficianoados, I still think the exercise is very useful. I almost see it as a "Rorschach test" of what individuals see as the most important aspects of Epicurean philosophy. It's amazing how people look differently even at the general subject of talking about how symbolism should work. Should the symbol be related to something that is "unique" about Epicurus, or is it ok for it to be about something that he's often associated with (atomism) but not at all as the trailblazer (that would have to go to Democritus or one of the eariler atomists.)

So I have no real hope of any consensus arising in the near future, but at the same time I think the exercise is great food for thought for everyone.

Quote from Cassius

what individuals see as the most important aspects of Epicurean philosophy.

That sounds like a good poll question! (from post 88 above).

Quote from Kalosyni

What do you feel is the most important aspect of Epicurean philosophy?

Personally, I'd say the method of truth-finding is at the core, because – after taking into account that we're engaging in philosophy, which implies that we're already trying to find a method for attaining the good life before whatever we do becomes specifically Epicurean (as opposed to generally philosophical) – because once the method of truth-finding is given, I'd expect that one would, with time and effort, rebuild something reasonably similar to Epicurean philosophy.

To rephrase that, I don't firstly hold Epicurean philosophy as divine; I don't even hold it as useful first; I first hold it as true, and thus, that which generates that sensation/feeling of truth, to me, is the core – and it is from truth, that everything else follows.

The feeling of conviction is a fundamental human emotion, which can be triggered by deep brain stimulation in isolation, which means: the subjects will report feeling very profoundly convinced, but they won't be able to tell you of what – they're just very, very convinced. This shows how the feeling of conviction is just as much a hardwired dimension of our emotional landscape as love and fear.

And what's more, in my experience with religionism, it was the same there: the conviction of truth preceded everything else – but couldn't be maintained, because – well… – it wasn't actually true, was it.

Is that really different for you?

Quote from Joshua

Julia, Don has a write-up that might be relevant to your question here.

And here is a thread where the question of Epicurus' birthday was raised in 2022.

Edit: another thread in the chain that led to the current paper by Don.

You're right – I didn't think to search first! Thank you for pointing me to some good places

Quote

Which are your favourites? What do y'all think about the idea in general?

Martin, do you have a suggestion?

I do not have a particular preference for any of the suggestions in this thread so far and have none on my own. Among the shown stable three body systems, this one appears to be optimum between simplicity and complexity and provides multiple aspects for symbolism:

5_4_800_36_downscaled-Pick1-2.jpg

That configuration immediately reminded me of...

"Epicureanism, the final philosophy... Where no philosophy has gone before..."

Post 89 above is set up as an anonymous poll. With the following question:

"What do you feel is the most important aspect of Epicurean philosophy?'

And, I think that this question would be important with regard to creating an Epicurean symbol.

The ancient papyri, labelled SFOTSE, held together with a gemstone, inside the waning gibbous. Could easily be modified for NFFNSNC, for EPICURUS, et cetera. (I'm not good at drawing, but I'm sure you see what I mean. I forgot one radial line near the F; that's just by mistake )

Here's an idea... the material realm originating in atoms can naturally evolve as humans, to live as blissfully as the gods (who are themselves composed only of a type of material matter) .

Another idea...

This came to me after seeing Eikadistes recent t-shirt design.

Some great ideas here! I’ve really been enjoying looking at all of them.

I’m firmly in the camp of “symbols should be simple enough for a child to draw”. With that in mind, I like the idea of a full cup as a symbol, representing the vessel analogy and thus the prudent pursuit of pleasure - neither ascetic nor reckless.

Quote from Kalosyni

Another idea...

This came to me after seeing Eikadistes recent t-shirt design.

And the krater was the vase for mixing water and wine for gatherings, so, that along with the 20er moon encapsulates the gatherings on that day of the month.

Decided to try learning Inkscape at one in the morning... Harder than I thought! Think I'll stick to pen and paper for now.

That said, I'm liking the idea of a full kylix as a symbol more and more. Beyond Lucretius' vessel analogy itself, the classic ancient Greek wine cup represents pleasure (and not ascetic "necessary only" pleasure!) and ties back to the historical and cultural origins of the philosophy.

I also toyed with the idea of combining a balance scale with the kylix - the scale "plates" hanging from each handle or something like that, to represent prudent and measured pursuit of pleasure. However, it would perhaps be overly complex for a simple symbol.

I also believe that a good symbol should be able to be represented in many different styles and colours while remaining recognisable. Take, for instance, the many renditions of the Christian cross. Here's a couple mockups of a more stylised, hand-drawn (though unfilled) kylix I threw together in Canva.