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  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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Recent Updates From Across EpicureanFriends.com

Recent Activities

  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:29 AM

    Added the file "The Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics" - Article By David Sedley.
    File
    PDF available here:

    https://www.academia.edu/29597693/The_i…picurean_ethics
  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:16 AM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    As to other ancient sources beyond Diogenes Laertius and Cicero that might be of help, I see that Diogenes of Oinoanda repeats the main citations but offers no additional explanation:

    Fragment 32

    Each (virtue?) therefore ............... means of (?) ...…
  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:11 AM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    As to Lucretius, I am finding zero reference to the natural and necessary categories. There are lots of ethical references in Lucretius to restraining desires, but I am not seeing the specific "natural and necessary" classification.

    I find this even more…
  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:01 AM

    Replied to the thread Should References to "Natural" Be Understood As Contrasting "Given By Nature" to "Given By Convention"?.
    Post
    Thanks for those quotes Bryan!

    Those lead me to ask: In this context does "convention" focus on "agreement between multiple people"? I could almost seeing these quotes referring to "the conclusions of reason" or even something indicated by prolepsis /…
  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 10:53 AM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    I am going to attempt to see what other citations I can find that might shed light on the relationship. I woke up this morning thinking that given how ethically-oriented it is, surely Frances Wright at least mentions the natural and necessary categories…
  • Bryan January 23, 2026 at 10:50 AM

    Replied to the thread Should References to "Natural" Be Understood As Contrasting "Given By Nature" to "Given By Convention"?.
    Post
    I will throw in a few related quotes:

    "Epicurus {as reported by Colotes} acts with the purest effrontery when he claims to lay down the same first principles, but nevertheless does not say that "color is by convention" and thus the qualities sweet,…
  • Godfrey January 23, 2026 at 10:40 AM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    Rereading my last post, it would seem that I do agree with "we would never... pursue a desire that is neither natural or necessary." I pursue desires that are unnecessary, but I do try to avoid the unnatural.

    To my embarrassment it seems that I misread…
  • Kalosyni January 23, 2026 at 10:31 AM

    Replied to the thread Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda.
    Post
    A shout-out to our newer members and anyone who hasn't previously attended a Zoom meeting...

    Inviting all forum members to "Fourth Sunday" (this next Sunday)...which will have time for questions about the forum and Epicurean philosophy.

    And Cassius will be…
  • Cassius January 23, 2026 at 4:52 AM

    Posted the thread Should References to "Natural" Be Understood As Contrasting "Given By Nature" to "Given By Convention"?.
    Thread
    This is a discussion that originated in the recent Zoom in which we were discussing the relationship between "hedonic calculus analysis" and "natural/necessary analysis." It's really a part of that discussion, but the question is of such significance…
  • Godfrey January 23, 2026 at 12:46 AM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    […]

    In answer to your question Cassius , this.
  • Eikadistes January 23, 2026 at 12:04 AM

    Replied to the thread New "TWENTIERS" Website.
    Post
    I took a swing at Karneískos' fragment to Philístas and published it here.

    The text was translated from P.Herc. 1027.
  • Cleveland Okie January 22, 2026 at 11:39 PM

    Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".
    Post
    Matteng I second Joshua's recommendation of The Swerve. Aside from its Epicurean interest, it is a really fun read.

    If "Epicureanism in the Renaissance" is an interest for some of y'all, I would also recommend Ada Palmer's Reading Lucretius in the…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 9:10 PM

    Replied to the thread "The Summum Bonum Fallacy" - General Discussion of DeWitt's Article.
    Post
    Yes we have two parallel sets of comments. I don't think Sedley is attaching blame. He seems to accept the Latin terminology as valid and a reasonable choice by Cicero.

    The trouble is on our end because we read more onto the construction than a Roman…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 8:53 PM

    Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.
    Post
    As an aside here Joshua I think we are seeing in going through Tusculan Disputations how important it was to Cicero (and presumably the Stoics) to say that there is only a single good - virtue - and that nothing else is truly good. That allows them to…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 8:34 PM

    Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.
    Post
    […]

    I dont recall that he mentions that. And in fact as I read it he's not really being critical of Cicero's choice to use "summum bonum." I gather what he's saying is that it makes perfect sense in Latin to do it the way Cicero did it.

    The problem arises…
  • Joshua January 22, 2026 at 8:34 PM

    Replied to the thread "The Summum Bonum Fallacy" - General Discussion of DeWitt's Article.
    Post
    As I mentioned in the other thread, Lucretius himself uses Summum Bonum. It's no good blaming Cicero before one addresses this!
  • Joshua January 22, 2026 at 8:30 PM

    Replied to the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.
    Post
    How does he respond to Lucretius' use of Summum Bonum in the early lines of Book 6?
  • Joshua January 22, 2026 at 8:26 PM

    Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".
    Post
    Greenblatt was also invited to deliver a lecture connected with his book at the Getty Villa, which I also recommend watching!

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=mXqHOF1B808
  • Joshua January 22, 2026 at 8:24 PM

    Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".
    Post
    […]

    I'm not very good about keeping up with the secondary literature, but The Swerve by Stephen Greenblatt was my main introduction to Epicureanism and I am always happy to write in his defense.

    I first encountered Greenblatt's work as an under-graduate…
  • Kalosyni January 22, 2026 at 6:47 PM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    […]



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_addiction

    […]

  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 6:31 PM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    […]

    I should be clear too that it's not like we had a "fight" or anything! This variation on the topic is something that I don't think has been discussed here before - at least in this way - so we're very much in the mode of exploring the possibilities…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 6:27 PM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    […]

    Just to be clear, "that" refers to what?
  • Godfrey January 22, 2026 at 5:56 PM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    I specifically disagree with that :D

    I rule out the unnatural desires, but find the unnecessary desires to be a source of great pleasure. The key to enjoying pleasures resulting from unnecessary desires is to realize that you can thrive without them and yet…
  • wbernys January 22, 2026 at 3:57 PM

    Replied to the thread Would Epicurus approve of Biblical or Quranic studies in order to confident in disproving it?.
    Post
    […]

    Frances Wright for the win!

    I wonder if another reason he potentially didn't try to refute poetry so much was because of the extreme religious diversity in ancient Hreece with some having very different views on Homer, who was not really seen as…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 3:42 PM

    Replied to the thread Would Epicurus approve of Biblical or Quranic studies in order to confident in disproving it?.
    Post
    By coincidence I was posting earlier about an article by David Sedley, in which he makes the point that fundamental Epicurean argument in favor of both atomism and the pleasure of ethics involves refuting claims that contradict the view that you are…
  • wbernys January 22, 2026 at 3:24 PM

    Posted the thread Would Epicurus approve of Biblical or Quranic studies in order to confident in disproving it?.
    Thread
    Didn't really know where to put this thread.

    So before I became a full fledged Epicurean I was quite addicted to academic study of the Bible and Quran. Not for religious reasons but to be confident in my own opposition to religion. When I saw things like…
  • Kalosyni January 22, 2026 at 2:50 PM

    Replied to the thread Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda.
    Post
    fyi - The Fourth Sunday topic that was posted earlier today has now been changed to: "Pleasure, Atoms, and the Foundations of Epicurean Ethics" - facilitated by Cassius.

    The thread for on that article is here:

    Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics -…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 2:47 PM

    Replied to the thread What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?.
    Post
    […]

    […]

    Comparing what Godfrey wrote with what Kalosyni wrote, I expect most of us are going to agree on the benefits of both methods of analysis.

    The differences appear to me to come out with Godfrey's "I would begin...." because the point of division…
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 2:40 PM

    Replied to the thread The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure".
    Post
    Thank you Cleveland Oakie for taking the time to write up that review and adding it here!
  • Cassius January 22, 2026 at 2:28 PM

    Posted the thread Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley.
    Thread
    In researching other issues I came across this article by David Sedley: Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics

    While I have some issues with the first section, but that's only a brief summary of Epicurean ethics and not essential to the main point of…

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Latest Posts

  • What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?

    Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:16 AM
  • Should References to "Natural" Be Understood As Contrasting "Given By Nature" to "Given By Convention"?

    Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:01 AM
  • Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda

    Kalosyni January 23, 2026 at 10:31 AM
  • New "TWENTIERS" Website

    Eikadistes January 23, 2026 at 12:04 AM
  • The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure"

    Cleveland Okie January 22, 2026 at 11:39 PM
  • "The Summum Bonum Fallacy" - General Discussion of DeWitt's Article

    Cassius January 22, 2026 at 9:10 PM
  • Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley

    Cassius January 22, 2026 at 8:53 PM
  • Would Epicurus approve of Biblical or Quranic studies in order to confident in disproving it?

    wbernys January 22, 2026 at 3:57 PM
  • “WE GOT BEEF! (A Disembowelment of the Dialectic…)”

    Matteng January 22, 2026 at 1:20 PM
  • Video on "Confidence"

    Cassius January 21, 2026 at 4:44 PM

Latest Posts

  • What Is The Relationship Between "Hedonic Calculus" Analysis" and "Natural and Necessary Desire" Analysis?

    Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:16 AM
  • Should References to "Natural" Be Understood As Contrasting "Given By Nature" to "Given By Convention"?

    Cassius January 23, 2026 at 11:01 AM
  • Fourth Sunday Zoom - Jan. 25, 2026 - Epicurean Philosophy Discussion Via Zoom - Agenda

    Kalosyni January 23, 2026 at 10:31 AM
  • New "TWENTIERS" Website

    Eikadistes January 23, 2026 at 12:04 AM
  • The "Suggested Further Reading" in "Living for Pleasure"

    Cleveland Okie January 22, 2026 at 11:39 PM
  • "The Summum Bonum Fallacy" - General Discussion of DeWitt's Article

    Cassius January 22, 2026 at 9:10 PM
  • Inferential Foundations of Epicurean Ethics - Article By David Sedley

    Cassius January 22, 2026 at 8:53 PM
  • Would Epicurus approve of Biblical or Quranic studies in order to confident in disproving it?

    wbernys January 22, 2026 at 3:57 PM
  • “WE GOT BEEF! (A Disembowelment of the Dialectic…)”

    Matteng January 22, 2026 at 1:20 PM
  • Video on "Confidence"

    Cassius January 21, 2026 at 4:44 PM
  • Episode 317 - TD43 - The Epicurean "System Of Counterbalancing" In Pursuit Of Pleasure

    Cassius January 21, 2026 at 4:40 PM
  • A Special Birthday Greeting To James!

    Cassius January 20, 2026 at 10:57 AM
  • How the Epicureans might have predicted Lorentz time dilation

    Martin January 20, 2026 at 9:37 AM
  • Happy Twentieth of January 2026!

    Kalosyni January 20, 2026 at 9:13 AM
  • When Epicurus says that death is the end of sensation, does "end of sensation" in and of itself mean that consciousness ends at death?

    Cassius January 20, 2026 at 7:12 AM

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