Posts by ontologix

Quote from Rolf

Quote

And for this cause we call pleasure the beginning and end of the blessed life. For we recognize pleasure as the first good innate in us, and from pleasure we begin every act of choice and avoidance, and to pleasure we return again, using the feeling as the standard by which we judge every good.

Letter to Menoeceus 129

I fully agree. From this viewpoint it is only a small step from Epicure to Sigmund Freud. His Lustprinzip has been confirmed by modern brain research. German Lust is not identical with English lust. Lustprinzip rather implies that something pleases you and gives you satisfaction.

Like Epicure Freud was not religious at all. In all writings of Freud you will not find a single reference to an immortal soul except in psychiatric terms.

When world famous Sigmund Freud had to flee the Nazis from Vienna to London in 1938 he was approached by a synagogue if he would like to come around, but he declined. They insisted: But you are a Jew. Freud replied: Of all the nonsense circulating in the world, why should I believe of all things in this particular one?

I imagine Epicure would have liked this answer. I think Epicure and Freud have a few ideas in common.

Quote from Cassius

ontologix

Also, I find it interesting that we have what is probably a disproportionately large number of native Germans here on the forum, and that prompts me to ask something else:

By no means all, but a significant number, of people I have run into who are fans of Epicurus are also fans of Nietzsche. I know Nietzsche had some negative things to say about Epicurus, but especially in "AntiChrist" he also spoke positively. Given that you are German I am curious about your views of the intersection (or lack thereof) between Epicurus and Nietzsche. And do not be concerned that you will offend anyone regardless of your views because we have people on all sides of how to appraise Nietzsche.

I know this is a deep subject so of course feel free to respond as fully or as briefly as you like.

Interesting to read that so many native Germans are members in this forum since philosophy is hardly taught in German secondary education. The nation of Immanuel Kant wantonly ignores its treasure of philosophers.

Well, I am not sufficiently familiar with Nietzsche to answer your question. I have read some, but missed his absence of a proper philosophical system. But since Nietzsche wrote on many different issues the answer will be difficult. Epicure however had a clearly structured materialistic system to which he adhered.

One thing however I would like to point out: Nietzsche was abused by the Nazis.

Nietzsche's younger sister Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche bent her brother's writings in such a way that he could be adapted to the Nazi ideology. Hitler visited the Nietzsche Archive in Weimar several times. I doubt if the uneducated Hitler understood a word of Nietzsche's writings. Nietzsche's concept of the Übermensch may have been attractive to the Nazis but is easily misunderstood.

But Nietzsche was anything but an antisemite and broke with Richard Wagner when the latter's antisemitism became more and more obvious.

I will ask a knowledgeable philosopher if he has an answer to your question.

....................

My expert has replied.

Epicure and Nietzsche have little in common except their naturalism and their absence of metaphysical speculation. Both were more or less atheists. "God is dead" and "gods can't be bothered with the daily wear and tear of us humans". There is no eternal and immortal soul.

Both see human existence as based on physical matter and nature, and both are sceptical towards metaphysical speculation. Life is a continuous becoming and decaying. Reason is a practical thing to help cope with life and not a continuum of its own.

But principally there are only few parallels between Epicure and Nietzsche. Nietzsche was a great fan of Greek tragedy which was not a major topic if at all with Epicure although he was close to it.

I would personally agree to that reply. The problem lies with Nietzsche who wrote on a wide variety of questions without having a clearly defined system.

Quote from Kalosyni

Welcome to the forum ontologix

Quote from ontologix

One of my aims will be to rectify outside this forum the millenium old defamation of Epikuros as a hedonist.

Perhaps more specifically...Epicurus was a hedonist, but he was not a profligate.

Well, I am not so sure that Epicure was a hedonist. For him pleasure was not an aim in itself. It was rather a motivation how to go about things. If you do not like your work you will not succeed in it.

Pleasure is perhaps not the right term. It should be enjoyment. i.e. to derive a pleasant motivation for doing something. If you like your work you will engage in it.

I find it ridiculous that in practically every small town in France there is a restaurant called L'Epicure or L'Epicurien. These establishments have absolutely nothing to do with Epicure's philosophy. His diet was simple and vegetarian. Epicure would be furious to see his name abused in this manner.

Just look at this shop in Berlin: https://lesepicuriens.de/pages/ueber-uns

Next time I come to Berlin i shall ask them if they have ever read a line on Epicure.

Or this in Munich, a fish restaurant, run by Greeks.

Epikur, München - Speisekarte, Preise und Bewertungen

Ich schlage vor, das ihr das Restaurant Epikur besucht. Erfahrt mehr über diesen Ort mit der Restaurant Guru App.

de.restaurantguru.com

I am very happy to have found this valuable forum and will certainly contribute within my possibilities. One of my aims will be to rectify outside this forum the millenium old defamation of Epikuros as a hedonist. I will also try to analyse how Epikuros and Immanuel Kant thought along similar lines methodically.

Thank you for admitting me. Valeatis.

P.S.: I had a few T shirts printed reading: EPICVRI DE GREGE PORCVS which I proudly wear occasionally, also one with Greek letters lathe biosas.